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Seeing more of this at museums and institutions as well which is really disheartening. Gone are the days where you could pay at the door. Now you must go to th

Seeing more of this at museums and institutions as well which is really disheartening. Gone are the days where you could pay at the door. Now you must go to their website and fill out a long string of forms and manually type in your credit card number, all so you can get a QR code and wait even longer to enter. Or go to a restaurant and use your phone to scan a QR code to read their PDF menu on your phone. Once a refuge from always-connected society, restaurants and museums now require it and I'm finding myself not returning to these places.

throwawaysleep 3y ago
How much should museums waste on customer service staff to take your money? And security staff for managing the queues?
- chii 3y ago
  They still have the same customer service staff, but they're now just scanning your QR code instead of taking cash. And security staff and queue management is always going to be needed if the place is large and crowded.
  - throwawaysleep 3y ago
    The time it takes a scan a code is a lot less than ringing up a transaction.
    - rolph 3y ago
      when everything is perfect first time maybe.
    - singleshot_ 3y ago
      Yes, but the time it takes the visitor to get a QR code is a lot more than ringing up a transaction. The museum has offloaded work on the visitor and this is not acceptable. The visitor, after all, is the one paying the bill.
      - rbanffy 3y ago
        Before that the phone system offloaded work to their subscribers, who now needed to listen to and understand the various tones (dial, ringing, busy) and remember phone numbers.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Right? What next, ramps for wheelchair users? /s In all seriousness, there is a point to be made about equity at a minimal viable level, and if you don’t want to enable access for everyone, you’re not permitted to operate. Very similar to how some jurisdictions have outlawed not accepting cash (because this policy impacts the unbanked, underbanked, and low income disproportionately). Streamlining, efficiencies, and improved experiences via digital delivery are welcome, but once you start tiptoeing into disenfranchising cohorts by doing so (even unintentionally), that’s where regulation comes in. “You should just get a smartphone” is an unreasonable position to take and policy should actively discourage outcomes based on that position. It’s an accessibility and “fail safe|gracefully” issue.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > “You should just get a smartphone” is an unreasonable position to take and policy should actively discourage outcomes based on that position. It’s an accessibility and “fail safe|gracefully” issue. Is you must have an ID to get on plane also unreasonable? A modern smart phone (at least an iPhone) has all sorts of affordances that make life easier for the disabled.
    - zabzonk 3y ago
      Yes, of course - an iphone is so much cheaper and easier to use than a passport or a paper boarding pass.
      - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
        Wow, a $1000 dollar phone is cheaper than carrying a paper document? I guess that logic escapes me.
        zabzonk 3y ago
        I meant it to be sarcasm, obviously failed
- strict9 3y ago
  That's the problem, they haven't changed staffing. Customer service is still there. Staff for managing queues is still there. The wait has increased, and hasn't decreased the need for staff. Presumably this is all done so they can get a verified email address for marketing purposes, as proof of entry only arrives via email.
- Etheryte 3y ago
  Neither one of those roles has become obsolete with the introduction of said apps, I wouldn't even say there's any difference in staffing requirements. You've simply replaced one problem with another, instead of simply taking your money, the worker now has to figure out why the app doesn't accept your card/phone/address/etc which is arguably much more time consuming.
- version_five 3y ago
  > waste on customer service I hate to say it but there needs to be some regulation about customer service, ie not allowing companies to not provide it by pawning people off on digital solutions. So many businesses are only viable because they don't provide customer support, and I don't think that's un society's interest.
  - throwawaysleep 3y ago
    Make those who want it pay for it then, like with Ryanair.
- johngladtj 3y ago
  So long as they are getting my tax money, as much as I want.
- somenameforme 3y ago
  I don't think this is really an issue, but even if you do it's trivially solvable. Vending machines have [somewhat surprisingly] been around for hundreds of years. Single slot generic items, like generic tickets, could easily be 'automated' by a vending machine. Few to no places do this because it's not a meaningful bottle-neck or labor issue.
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  Isn't the entire point of a museum customer service? What else are they doing other than preserving the stuff? Isn't a museum with bad customer service more properly called a "warehouse"?
itsoktocry 3y ago
>Or go to a restaurant and use your phone to scan a QR code to read their PDF menu on your phone. Don't worry, they will have paper copies if you don't have a phone or are insistent you want to handle a grubby, contaminated piece of paper before you eat your meal.
- kgermino 3y ago
  Not everyone has paper copies and if I’m going out to dinner with my wife the last thing we want to do is pull our phones out and figure out a pdf menu
- EliRivers 3y ago
  If there's a concern about grubby contamination, that bridge was burned when the diner decided to go out to a restaurant.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Indeed. If the menu bothers you, better hope you don't catch a glimpse of the kitchen.
sxg 3y ago
What's wrong with QR codes for restaurant menus? Here are the pros I can come up with off the top of my head: - Restaurants can experiment with more food options and more frequent updates to their menu - Real time info on what's in stock - Cuts out the cost of having to constantly reprint the menu - Easier for customers to find the menu online when searching for restaurants (huge issue pre-COVID) What are the actual downsides? Sure, there may be a tiny fraction of people without a smartphone, but they're likely accompanied by someone who does have one. Despite that, restaurants would likely keep a few physical menus on-hand.
- rhino369 3y ago
  I find menus on phones harder to read. And it just feels annoying to have everyone’s face in their phones at a meal. I have no issue with it being default, but since covid ended, the places that still use qr menus seem not to have paper menus on hand. It’s not the end of the world but it makes your restaurant feel cheap. Still 100 times better than places that make you order on your phone.
- danpalmer 3y ago
  A major con for me is that I don’t want to get my phone out. If I use my phone to read the menu I’m also seeing notifications, they may distract me even if only by making me think about them. I’d rather just not check my phone for the duration of the meal. Also I have friends and relatives who have never owned a smartphone, some who would be essentially unable to do so. That said, another benefit is more scope for accessibility. I would bet that most restaurant sites are terrible for accessibility, but implementing screen reader or large font support would apply everywhere, whereas I’d also bet that most restaurant never have braille or large print menus.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > If I use my phone to read the menu I’m also seeing notifications You can turn on do not disturb until you leave the current location on iOS. I do that a lot. You have all of the tools you need. It's like someone complaining that the sun is too bright when they have their cap turned backwards and their shades on top of their head.
raverbashing 3y ago
Yeah, which is stupid Museums could have a booth that takes cash/card and prints the tkts instead of a random/poorly maintained website that'll do who knows what to you CC number (which probably costs more than having the person selling tkts)
rattlesnakedave 3y ago
This has not been my experience. Paying for admission to museums/sporting events I apple pay from safari on my phone then am presented with a QR or a pass to add to my apple wallet. It's really nice and I much prefer it to standing in line.
- abwizz 3y ago
  no turn it around your phone just broke/stolen/lost, do you forfeit your right to enter these places and use their services some of which might be "essential"?
  - gspencley 3y ago
    This. Apart from not wanting to be tethered to my phone 24/7, I don't like that it is a single point of failure. It has replaced our wallets and then some. The most terrifying prospect to me is governments that want to switch to digital IDs. No thanks. I don't need to lose access to existence just because my battery died or I forgot my phone at home.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      > I don't like that it is a single point of failure. It has replaced our wallets and then some I also have a cellular Apple Watch that also has a copy of my digital wallet....
      - master-lincoln 3y ago
        cool story bro. You must be wealthy
      - kibwen 3y ago
        And once these devices become required for participation in society, is the government going to issue free phones and watches to everyone who can't afford them, or are they going to become yet another burden suffered disproportionately by the poor, just like car ownership?
ryandrake 3y ago
I usually hate the cliche "vote with your wallet" solution, but in this case, it's the right way. Now is the time, while this garbage is still trying to get a foothold and there are still many alternatives that do not treat their customers like shit. Loudly refuse to do business with those companies that require unnecessary technology, and complain to the right people. Not the faces behind the counter making minimum wage. I don't want to victim blame, but the elderly couple in the article should know better. Isn't Ryanair notorious for their shittiness to customers? We should stop dealing with shitty companies just to save $10.
- throwawaysleep 3y ago
  It is only shitty for people who haven't learned how to use email. Saving $10 in exchange for using email is a great deal for most.
  - freetanga 3y ago
    I think in this case the poor option is using Ryanair at all.
- gabereiser 3y ago
  The issue is we want restaurants and museums. If we vote with our wallet and boycott than they will look at it as a disinterest in the venue and not a failure of their IT team.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    You need to tell them why. "I'm not visiting your museum because you demand the use of an app. I want to pay cash for admission at the door" If you happen to be disabled, and cannot use a mobile app (most do a woeful job with accessibility and even if they don't, some people just cannot use the devices), threaten an ADA lawsuit.
    - gabereiser 3y ago
      This is the right way, only I would reword it to “I want to visit your museum but I’m unable to use the app due to disability, would you mind taking cash or debit?”. Try not to start conversations in the negative. You’ll get a lot farther.
dmazzoni 3y ago
I've been to a lot of venues where that's the preferred option. I recently took my kids to the county fair. There was a big line of people waiting to buy tickets, and a short line for ticket holders. We went to the line of ticket holders, I popped up the website, and thanks to browser autofill, I completed the transaction in less than a minute, and we had our tickets by the time we reached the front of the line. I 100% agree that this shouldn't be the only option. But I think it's a great alternative, and for many events it makes sense for it to be the default option.
CaptainZapp 3y ago
I agree with you in principle, but one of the problems is that some exhibitions are so popular that you really have to book weeks in advance if you want to get in. Case in point: A friend suggested the biggest ever Yayoi Kusama exhibition in Manchester[0], which I relayed to my girlfriend because we would be in the city 3 weeks later. She sent me a frantic sms Get Tickets Now! since the exhibition was sold out weeks in advance. And that's an issue you see with a lot of popular exhibitions. You can't just walk into a David Hockney exhibition at Centre Pompidou on a whim, because the time slots are sold out for weeks in advance. That may not be fair and super inconvenient if you don't book far in advance. But popular exhibitions in big cities are so overwhelmed by visitors that there's really no other way than selling time slots well in advance. The Kusama exhibition was totally worth it. But we wouldn't have stood a chance if we hadn't organized the tickets weeks before the visit. I think the insistence on smart phones for basic services is much worse than asking the public to organize a museum visit well in advance if the exhibition is super popular. [0] https://factoryinternational.org/whats-on/yayoi-kusama-you-me-and-the-balloons/ https://factoryinternational.org/whats-on/yayoi-kusama-you-m...

throwawaysleep 3y ago

How much should museums waste on customer service staff to take your money? And security staff for managing the queues?

chii 3y ago
They still have the same customer service staff, but they're now just scanning your QR code instead of taking cash. And security staff and queue management is always going to be needed if the place is large and crowded.
- throwawaysleep 3y ago
  The time it takes a scan a code is a lot less than ringing up a transaction.
  - rolph 3y ago
    when everything is perfect first time maybe.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    Yes, but the time it takes the visitor to get a QR code is a lot more than ringing up a transaction. The museum has offloaded work on the visitor and this is not acceptable. The visitor, after all, is the one paying the bill.
    - rbanffy 3y ago
      Before that the phone system offloaded work to their subscribers, who now needed to listen to and understand the various tones (dial, ringing, busy) and remember phone numbers.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Right? What next, ramps for wheelchair users? /s In all seriousness, there is a point to be made about equity at a minimal viable level, and if you don’t want to enable access for everyone, you’re not permitted to operate. Very similar to how some jurisdictions have outlawed not accepting cash (because this policy impacts the unbanked, underbanked, and low income disproportionately). Streamlining, efficiencies, and improved experiences via digital delivery are welcome, but once you start tiptoeing into disenfranchising cohorts by doing so (even unintentionally), that’s where regulation comes in. “You should just get a smartphone” is an unreasonable position to take and policy should actively discourage outcomes based on that position. It’s an accessibility and “fail safe|gracefully” issue.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > “You should just get a smartphone” is an unreasonable position to take and policy should actively discourage outcomes based on that position. It’s an accessibility and “fail safe|gracefully” issue. Is you must have an ID to get on plane also unreasonable? A modern smart phone (at least an iPhone) has all sorts of affordances that make life easier for the disabled.
  - zabzonk 3y ago
    Yes, of course - an iphone is so much cheaper and easier to use than a passport or a paper boarding pass.
    - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
      Wow, a $1000 dollar phone is cheaper than carrying a paper document? I guess that logic escapes me.
      - zabzonk 3y ago
        I meant it to be sarcasm, obviously failed
strict9 3y ago
That's the problem, they haven't changed staffing. Customer service is still there. Staff for managing queues is still there. The wait has increased, and hasn't decreased the need for staff. Presumably this is all done so they can get a verified email address for marketing purposes, as proof of entry only arrives via email.
Etheryte 3y ago
Neither one of those roles has become obsolete with the introduction of said apps, I wouldn't even say there's any difference in staffing requirements. You've simply replaced one problem with another, instead of simply taking your money, the worker now has to figure out why the app doesn't accept your card/phone/address/etc which is arguably much more time consuming.
version_five 3y ago
> waste on customer service I hate to say it but there needs to be some regulation about customer service, ie not allowing companies to not provide it by pawning people off on digital solutions. So many businesses are only viable because they don't provide customer support, and I don't think that's un society's interest.
- throwawaysleep 3y ago
  Make those who want it pay for it then, like with Ryanair.
johngladtj 3y ago
So long as they are getting my tax money, as much as I want.
somenameforme 3y ago
I don't think this is really an issue, but even if you do it's trivially solvable. Vending machines have [somewhat surprisingly] been around for hundreds of years. Single slot generic items, like generic tickets, could easily be 'automated' by a vending machine. Few to no places do this because it's not a meaningful bottle-neck or labor issue.
singleshot_ 3y ago
Isn't the entire point of a museum customer service? What else are they doing other than preserving the stuff? Isn't a museum with bad customer service more properly called a "warehouse"?

itsoktocry 3y ago

>Or go to a restaurant and use your phone to scan a QR code to read their PDF menu on your phone. Don't worry, they will have paper copies if you don't have a phone or are insistent you want to handle a grubby, contaminated piece of paper before you eat your meal.

kgermino 3y ago
Not everyone has paper copies and if I’m going out to dinner with my wife the last thing we want to do is pull our phones out and figure out a pdf menu
EliRivers 3y ago
If there's a concern about grubby contamination, that bridge was burned when the diner decided to go out to a restaurant.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Indeed. If the menu bothers you, better hope you don't catch a glimpse of the kitchen.

sxg 3y ago

What's wrong with QR codes for restaurant menus? Here are the pros I can come up with off the top of my head: - Restaurants can experiment with more food options and more frequent updates to their menu - Real time info on what's in stock - Cuts out the cost of having to constantly reprint the menu - Easier for customers to find the menu online when searching for restaurants (huge issue pre-COVID) What are the actual downsides? Sure, there may be a tiny fraction of people without a smartphone, but they're likely accompanied by someone who does have one. Despite that, restaurants would likely keep a few physical menus on-hand.

rhino369 3y ago
I find menus on phones harder to read. And it just feels annoying to have everyone’s face in their phones at a meal. I have no issue with it being default, but since covid ended, the places that still use qr menus seem not to have paper menus on hand. It’s not the end of the world but it makes your restaurant feel cheap. Still 100 times better than places that make you order on your phone.
danpalmer 3y ago
A major con for me is that I don’t want to get my phone out. If I use my phone to read the menu I’m also seeing notifications, they may distract me even if only by making me think about them. I’d rather just not check my phone for the duration of the meal. Also I have friends and relatives who have never owned a smartphone, some who would be essentially unable to do so. That said, another benefit is more scope for accessibility. I would bet that most restaurant sites are terrible for accessibility, but implementing screen reader or large font support would apply everywhere, whereas I’d also bet that most restaurant never have braille or large print menus.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > If I use my phone to read the menu I’m also seeing notifications You can turn on do not disturb until you leave the current location on iOS. I do that a lot. You have all of the tools you need. It's like someone complaining that the sun is too bright when they have their cap turned backwards and their shades on top of their head.

raverbashing 3y ago

Yeah, which is stupid Museums could have a booth that takes cash/card and prints the tkts instead of a random/poorly maintained website that'll do who knows what to you CC number (which probably costs more than having the person selling tkts)

rattlesnakedave 3y ago

This has not been my experience. Paying for admission to museums/sporting events I apple pay from safari on my phone then am presented with a QR or a pass to add to my apple wallet. It's really nice and I much prefer it to standing in line.

abwizz 3y ago
no turn it around your phone just broke/stolen/lost, do you forfeit your right to enter these places and use their services some of which might be "essential"?
- gspencley 3y ago
  This. Apart from not wanting to be tethered to my phone 24/7, I don't like that it is a single point of failure. It has replaced our wallets and then some. The most terrifying prospect to me is governments that want to switch to digital IDs. No thanks. I don't need to lose access to existence just because my battery died or I forgot my phone at home.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > I don't like that it is a single point of failure. It has replaced our wallets and then some I also have a cellular Apple Watch that also has a copy of my digital wallet....
    - master-lincoln 3y ago
      cool story bro. You must be wealthy
    - kibwen 3y ago
      And once these devices become required for participation in society, is the government going to issue free phones and watches to everyone who can't afford them, or are they going to become yet another burden suffered disproportionately by the poor, just like car ownership?

ryandrake 3y ago

I usually hate the cliche "vote with your wallet" solution, but in this case, it's the right way. Now is the time, while this garbage is still trying to get a foothold and there are still many alternatives that do not treat their customers like shit. Loudly refuse to do business with those companies that require unnecessary technology, and complain to the right people. Not the faces behind the counter making minimum wage. I don't want to victim blame, but the elderly couple in the article should know better. Isn't Ryanair notorious for their shittiness to customers? We should stop dealing with shitty companies just to save $10.

throwawaysleep 3y ago
It is only shitty for people who haven't learned how to use email. Saving $10 in exchange for using email is a great deal for most.
- freetanga 3y ago
  I think in this case the poor option is using Ryanair at all.
gabereiser 3y ago
The issue is we want restaurants and museums. If we vote with our wallet and boycott than they will look at it as a disinterest in the venue and not a failure of their IT team.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  You need to tell them why. "I'm not visiting your museum because you demand the use of an app. I want to pay cash for admission at the door" If you happen to be disabled, and cannot use a mobile app (most do a woeful job with accessibility and even if they don't, some people just cannot use the devices), threaten an ADA lawsuit.
  - gabereiser 3y ago
    This is the right way, only I would reword it to “I want to visit your museum but I’m unable to use the app due to disability, would you mind taking cash or debit?”. Try not to start conversations in the negative. You’ll get a lot farther.

dmazzoni 3y ago

I've been to a lot of venues where that's the preferred option. I recently took my kids to the county fair. There was a big line of people waiting to buy tickets, and a short line for ticket holders. We went to the line of ticket holders, I popped up the website, and thanks to browser autofill, I completed the transaction in less than a minute, and we had our tickets by the time we reached the front of the line. I 100% agree that this shouldn't be the only option. But I think it's a great alternative, and for many events it makes sense for it to be the default option.

CaptainZapp 3y ago

I agree with you in principle, but one of the problems is that some exhibitions are so popular that you really have to book weeks in advance if you want to get in. Case in point: A friend suggested the biggest ever Yayoi Kusama exhibition in Manchester[0], which I relayed to my girlfriend because we would be in the city 3 weeks later. She sent me a frantic sms Get Tickets Now! since the exhibition was sold out weeks in advance. And that's an issue you see with a lot of popular exhibitions. You can't just walk into a David Hockney exhibition at Centre Pompidou on a whim, because the time slots are sold out for weeks in advance. That may not be fair and super inconvenient if you don't book far in advance. But popular exhibitions in big cities are so overwhelmed by visitors that there's really no other way than selling time slots well in advance. The Kusama exhibition was totally worth it. But we wouldn't have stood a chance if we hadn't organized the tickets weeks before the visit. I think the insistence on smart phones for basic services is much worse than asking the public to organize a museum visit well in advance if the exhibition is super popular. [0] https://factoryinternational.org/whats-on/yayoi-kusama-you-me-and-the-balloons/ https://factoryinternational.org/whats-on/yayoi-kusama-you-m...