3 ms·

It's interesting that just today The Guardian is running a story praising a new women only living space in London[1], a city where 81% of homeless, rough sleepe

by Lio 3y ago

It's interesting that just today The Guardian is running a story praising a new women only living space in London[1], a city where 81% of homeless, rough sleepers are men[2]. This chimes with the view that gender segregation is only seen as a bad thing when it's male only spaces. 1. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/24/we-have-brothers-sons-lovers-but-they-cant-live-here-the-happy-home-shared-by-26-women https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/24/we-have... 2. https://www.statista.com/statistics/381373/london-homelessness-rough-sleepers-by-gender/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/381373/london-homelessne...

notahacker 3y ago
Am struggling to see a connection between impoverished rough sleepers and a single expensive apartment development in genteel New Barnet having a covenant that its tenants must be women. I guess women wouldn't have to stretch credulity quite so far to show how male only spaces and defaults impact them...
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  The problem and hypocrisy is that saying "only men allowed" will get you tarred and feathered, while saying "only women allowed" will get you showered with praise about how courageous and bold you are. Now, what was that about gender equality again?
  - defrost 3y ago
    Tarred and feathered? Not in England. Eton (1440-), Harrow (1572), Radley (1847) are all prestige "public" (for very rich well connected 'public') boys-only schools; the jewels in a crown of many more [1] that serve as introductions to a sea of men only clubs that still exist aplenty. With examples of an exclusive to women apartment building, many exclusive to male schools and clubs the only thing demonstrating gender openess in England here is homelessness - which might be dominated by men but still admits women to wander sans roof on the streets. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boys%27_schools_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boys%27_schools_in_the...
    - pbhjpbhj 3y ago
      It seems significant that your allowed "male only spaces" are only for rich elite; whilst the objection was against lauding the provision of housing that excludes men (given the number of men without accommodation far exceeds the number of women in that situation). How does the uber-elite having men-only spaces make it OK to exclude men from housing opportunities. This often seems the case to me, the ruling classes (and the very wealthy) do something and because this group is dominated by men then all men, no matter their station nor their moral objections to this groups actions, get tarred with that brush. Then we get "it's fine to exclude men from housing because this group [of HNW, rich, uber-elite] have no housing problems". It's almost like discrimination on irrelevant characteristics is wrong.
      - notahacker 3y ago
        The female only senior citizen housing project disingenuously linked to homelessness is also for wealthy elites. Nobody with the slightest bit of understanding honestly believes that there is a single man without access to accommodation that would be able to move off the streets if only a owner-occupied new build development in New Barnet was open to men purchasing a flat there. On the other hand, there are a large number of hostel beds (much larger than the New Barnet project celebrated for its uniqueness) potentially accessible to London's homeless which are reserved specifically for men
  - 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 3y ago
    Indeed, there is no such thing as equality, hence the need for women only spaces.
  - notahacker 3y ago
    Even if this was true (and it isn't: the UK has loads of male only accommodation from homeless shelters to its most prestigious boarding schools and the Grauniad will happily gush about men's groups[1] too), it has nothing to do with the intellectual dishonesty of linking the homelessness problem to gender segregation in an expensive retirement community in New Barnet. [1]https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/jul/23/meeting-same-group-men-years-david-spiegelhalter https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/jul/23/meeting...

by Lio 3y ago

notahacker 3y ago

Am struggling to see a connection between impoverished rough sleepers and a single expensive apartment development in genteel New Barnet having a covenant that its tenants must be women. I guess women wouldn't have to stretch credulity quite so far to show how male only spaces and defaults impact them...

Dalewyn 3y ago
The problem and hypocrisy is that saying "only men allowed" will get you tarred and feathered, while saying "only women allowed" will get you showered with praise about how courageous and bold you are. Now, what was that about gender equality again?
- defrost 3y ago
  Tarred and feathered? Not in England. Eton (1440-), Harrow (1572), Radley (1847) are all prestige "public" (for very rich well connected 'public') boys-only schools; the jewels in a crown of many more [1] that serve as introductions to a sea of men only clubs that still exist aplenty. With examples of an exclusive to women apartment building, many exclusive to male schools and clubs the only thing demonstrating gender openess in England here is homelessness - which might be dominated by men but still admits women to wander sans roof on the streets. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boys%27_schools_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boys%27_schools_in_the...
  - pbhjpbhj 3y ago
    It seems significant that your allowed "male only spaces" are only for rich elite; whilst the objection was against lauding the provision of housing that excludes men (given the number of men without accommodation far exceeds the number of women in that situation). How does the uber-elite having men-only spaces make it OK to exclude men from housing opportunities. This often seems the case to me, the ruling classes (and the very wealthy) do something and because this group is dominated by men then all men, no matter their station nor their moral objections to this groups actions, get tarred with that brush. Then we get "it's fine to exclude men from housing because this group [of HNW, rich, uber-elite] have no housing problems". It's almost like discrimination on irrelevant characteristics is wrong.
    - notahacker 3y ago
      The female only senior citizen housing project disingenuously linked to homelessness is also for wealthy elites. Nobody with the slightest bit of understanding honestly believes that there is a single man without access to accommodation that would be able to move off the streets if only a owner-occupied new build development in New Barnet was open to men purchasing a flat there. On the other hand, there are a large number of hostel beds (much larger than the New Barnet project celebrated for its uniqueness) potentially accessible to London's homeless which are reserved specifically for men
- 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 3y ago
  Indeed, there is no such thing as equality, hence the need for women only spaces.
- notahacker 3y ago
  Even if this was true (and it isn't: the UK has loads of male only accommodation from homeless shelters to its most prestigious boarding schools and the Grauniad will happily gush about men's groups[1] too), it has nothing to do with the intellectual dishonesty of linking the homelessness problem to gender segregation in an expensive retirement community in New Barnet. [1]https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/jul/23/meeting-same-group-men-years-david-spiegelhalter https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/jul/23/meeting...