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> What exactly is the argument against AI-generated child porn? Currently? The fact that all the models need training data and the law will see that as victimi

by ThrowAway1922A 3y ago

> What exactly is the argument against AI-generated child porn? Currently? The fact that all the models need training data and the law will see that as victimizing the people who were used in the data set be they adults of children. Overall? The fact that it's disgusting and pedophiles deserve things which I can say IRL and everyone agrees with, but on HN will get me banned. Many countries ban underage anime porn too. Children and their likeness are off limits.

richie_adler 3y ago
Far from me to defend pederasty, but I'm quite sure I would disagree with the thing you wouldn't want to publish, RL or not.
bruce511 3y ago
It's natural (normal) to think child point is disgusting. But its not hard to find many other sexual acts that at least some people, if not most people, find disgusting. So I'm not sure disgust is a useful criteria here. Most of what makes pedophilia so disgusting is the fact that a child is involved. Remove the child from the equation and it's more in line with other sex preferences. People can't really control their preferences. We've grown to understand that there are healthy, and unhealthy ways to satiate those preferences. Most of those revolve around the consent of those involved (taking as fact that children cannot consent.) One could argue that AI allows for a healthy outlet for a pedophile. You mention children being off limits. In other societies homosexuality is still criminal. Even where it is legal many consider it "off limits" or "disgusting". Laws, and emotions, in this space are not always logical. There will be second-order arguments (think - the gays are trying to turn my child gay) but most of them fundamentally misunderstand how human sexuality works.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  > You mention children being off limits. In other societies homosexuality is still criminal. Even where it is legal many consider it "off limits" or "disgusting". Laws, and emotions, in this space are not always logical. In fact in a lot of those countries where fully consensual homosexuality is highly illegal, marrying (with all its implications) what we would consider a child is legal and "normal" and so is forced/arranged marriage (again with all that implies). I'm really lucky to have grown up here.
  - bruce511 3y ago
    Certainly yes, different cultures have different norms. As a complete aside, forced marriages are not the same as arranged marriages. In many cultures arranged marriages (which seem completely bonkers to someone grown up in a western mindset) are both common, work well, and often good. Clearly neither arranged marriages, nor "choice marriages", are guaranteed. The divorce rate in the west bears this out. Both work well, both work badly. Again arranged is not the same as forced - clearly forced marriages are not something I consider a good thing.
danbruc 3y ago
[flagged]
caslon 3y ago
I agree with you that porn is disgusting, and that the people who view it are immoral. However, there are a lot of arguments to be made against capital punishment, murder, and other forms of vigilante violence. No nation with capital punishment is a stranger to wrongful execution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution Encouraging state violence based on the fact that something is "disgusting" is not a good idea. Law needs to be grounded in concrete harm. The lines currently seem ill-defined, and existing laws in this area have been used against children (see State of Washington v. E.G., where an autistic child was charged and convicted with distribution of child pornography for taking a selfie and sending it to an adult).

richie_adler 3y ago

Far from me to defend pederasty, but I'm quite sure I would disagree with the thing you wouldn't want to publish, RL or not.

bruce511 3y ago

It's natural (normal) to think child point is disgusting. But its not hard to find many other sexual acts that at least some people, if not most people, find disgusting. So I'm not sure disgust is a useful criteria here. Most of what makes pedophilia so disgusting is the fact that a child is involved. Remove the child from the equation and it's more in line with other sex preferences. People can't really control their preferences. We've grown to understand that there are healthy, and unhealthy ways to satiate those preferences. Most of those revolve around the consent of those involved (taking as fact that children cannot consent.) One could argue that AI allows for a healthy outlet for a pedophile. You mention children being off limits. In other societies homosexuality is still criminal. Even where it is legal many consider it "off limits" or "disgusting". Laws, and emotions, in this space are not always logical. There will be second-order arguments (think - the gays are trying to turn my child gay) but most of them fundamentally misunderstand how human sexuality works.

wkat4242 3y ago
> You mention children being off limits. In other societies homosexuality is still criminal. Even where it is legal many consider it "off limits" or "disgusting". Laws, and emotions, in this space are not always logical. In fact in a lot of those countries where fully consensual homosexuality is highly illegal, marrying (with all its implications) what we would consider a child is legal and "normal" and so is forced/arranged marriage (again with all that implies). I'm really lucky to have grown up here.
- bruce511 3y ago
  Certainly yes, different cultures have different norms. As a complete aside, forced marriages are not the same as arranged marriages. In many cultures arranged marriages (which seem completely bonkers to someone grown up in a western mindset) are both common, work well, and often good. Clearly neither arranged marriages, nor "choice marriages", are guaranteed. The divorce rate in the west bears this out. Both work well, both work badly. Again arranged is not the same as forced - clearly forced marriages are not something I consider a good thing.

danbruc 3y ago

[flagged]

caslon 3y ago

I agree with you that porn is disgusting, and that the people who view it are immoral. However, there are a lot of arguments to be made against capital punishment, murder, and other forms of vigilante violence. No nation with capital punishment is a stranger to wrongful execution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution Encouraging state violence based on the fact that something is "disgusting" is not a good idea. Law needs to be grounded in concrete harm. The lines currently seem ill-defined, and existing laws in this area have been used against children (see State of Washington v. E.G., where an autistic child was charged and convicted with distribution of child pornography for taking a selfie and sending it to an adult).