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Russian space program is a shadow of what it once was. Their history is full of daring missions and extraordinary achievements. I wish they would engage in a sp

by goku12 3y ago

Russian space program is a shadow of what it once was. Their history is full of daring missions and extraordinary achievements. I wish they would engage in a space race than in a war.

cpursley 3y ago
American space program is a shadow of what it once was. Their history is full of daring missions and extraordinary achievements. I wish they would engage in a space race rather than constant illegal, brutal, destructive and absolutely unnecessary war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States#21st-century_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni...
- dotnet00 3y ago
  It isn't really the gotcha you think it is when you see Falcon 9s flying and landing multiple times a week, the most advanced conventional rocket engines ever being mass produced, two scifi-esque lunar landers under serious development and all the other things. The American space program is far and away the world leader by a huge margin, while almost 2 decades ago things were dicey, the current Ameircan space program is definitely befitting of its glory during the mid/late 19th century.
  - cpursley 3y ago
    I agree with everything you wrote. But you missed my point - America has an incredible space program despite their wars. If wars were the cause of space program degradation, Russia would actually be ahead.
    - dotnet00 3y ago
      Ah, yeah not much arguing with that.
    - goku12 3y ago
      I'm not a supporter of war mongering by any country. And what I hoped for Russia is what I hope of the entire world. But the assumption that the impact of their war efforts on their economy are similar is completely wrong. Russian economy is in shambles due to it while America goes on as usual.
      - cpursley 3y ago
        This is objectively false, their economy is actually experiencing growth which has been widely reported: - https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2023/04/11/world-economic-outlook-april-2023 https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2023/04/11/wo... - https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD?locations=RU https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD?locat... - https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/double-digit-growth-real-wages-retail-sales-russias-unemployment-hits-record-low-2023-08-02/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/double-digit-growth-r...
pbj1968 3y ago
Russian space program started with killing a bunch of cosmonauts they pretended never existed…
- goku12 3y ago
  They also created a bunch of tech that Americans thought impossible at the time - especially the staged combustion cycle with oxygen-rich preburner. And the American space programme too had its share of human losses due to sheer hubris - the 2 shuttle disasters included and possibly Apollo 1 as well. Let's not understate the achievements of the Russian space engineers and the bravery of their astronauts just because of the current political situation.
tjpnz 3y ago
Might be time for China to reconsider its role with Russia in future manned moon missions. Any prestige the Russian program once had has long since faded, even ground operations at Baikonur are now at risk with equipment being impounded by bailiffs from Kazakhstan to service billions in debt.
- goku12 3y ago
  Coincidentally, China's first Mars (orbiter) mission Yinghuo-1 failed because it was hitchhiking on the Russian orbiter Fobos-Grunt that failed in an Earth orbit. India launched an orbiter soon afterwards and became the first country to get it right in the first attempt.
- ironyman 3y ago
  Russia retains an (rapidly diminishing) edge in certain areas of space. One of them is engine design. China is still keen on buying the best Soviet engines, namely Energia's RD-170 and its variants but of course Russia is less than keen on parting ways with them. Even CALT, the major launch vehicle provider in China, admits it will be well into the late 2020s/early 2030s before they can get an engine as good as the RD-170. Their YF-130, while technically very good according to recent tests, is still a bit less efficient. Think about that, a 40 year gap. Aerospace is hard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-170 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-170
  - chpatrick 3y ago
    I'm surprised that the Atlas V's first stage has these Russian engines.
    - dotnet00 3y ago
      Using Russian engines, like the ISS collaboration was an attempt by the US to keep soviet rocket scientists in business in civilian roles so they wouldn't be incentivized to spread around the world proliferating ICBM tech. In the process the US paid a huge price (decay of domestic design capability) and it's debatable if the goal was achieved. Edit: Thankfully the decay has been made up for over recent years with the boom in private launch companies and of course, SpaceX's work.

by goku12 3y ago

Russian space program is a shadow of what it once was. Their history is full of daring missions and extraordinary achievements. I wish they would engage in a space race than in a war.

cpursley 3y ago

American space program is a shadow of what it once was. Their history is full of daring missions and extraordinary achievements. I wish they would engage in a space race rather than constant illegal, brutal, destructive and absolutely unnecessary war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States#21st-century_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni...

dotnet00 3y ago
It isn't really the gotcha you think it is when you see Falcon 9s flying and landing multiple times a week, the most advanced conventional rocket engines ever being mass produced, two scifi-esque lunar landers under serious development and all the other things. The American space program is far and away the world leader by a huge margin, while almost 2 decades ago things were dicey, the current Ameircan space program is definitely befitting of its glory during the mid/late 19th century.
- cpursley 3y ago
  I agree with everything you wrote. But you missed my point - America has an incredible space program despite their wars. If wars were the cause of space program degradation, Russia would actually be ahead.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    Ah, yeah not much arguing with that.
  - goku12 3y ago
    I'm not a supporter of war mongering by any country. And what I hoped for Russia is what I hope of the entire world. But the assumption that the impact of their war efforts on their economy are similar is completely wrong. Russian economy is in shambles due to it while America goes on as usual.
    - cpursley 3y ago
      This is objectively false, their economy is actually experiencing growth which has been widely reported: - https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2023/04/11/world-economic-outlook-april-2023 https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2023/04/11/wo... - https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD?locations=RU https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD?locat... - https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/double-digit-growth-real-wages-retail-sales-russias-unemployment-hits-record-low-2023-08-02/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/double-digit-growth-r...

pbj1968 3y ago

Russian space program started with killing a bunch of cosmonauts they pretended never existed…

goku12 3y ago
They also created a bunch of tech that Americans thought impossible at the time - especially the staged combustion cycle with oxygen-rich preburner. And the American space programme too had its share of human losses due to sheer hubris - the 2 shuttle disasters included and possibly Apollo 1 as well. Let's not understate the achievements of the Russian space engineers and the bravery of their astronauts just because of the current political situation.

tjpnz 3y ago

Might be time for China to reconsider its role with Russia in future manned moon missions. Any prestige the Russian program once had has long since faded, even ground operations at Baikonur are now at risk with equipment being impounded by bailiffs from Kazakhstan to service billions in debt.

goku12 3y ago
Coincidentally, China's first Mars (orbiter) mission Yinghuo-1 failed because it was hitchhiking on the Russian orbiter Fobos-Grunt that failed in an Earth orbit. India launched an orbiter soon afterwards and became the first country to get it right in the first attempt.
ironyman 3y ago
Russia retains an (rapidly diminishing) edge in certain areas of space. One of them is engine design. China is still keen on buying the best Soviet engines, namely Energia's RD-170 and its variants but of course Russia is less than keen on parting ways with them. Even CALT, the major launch vehicle provider in China, admits it will be well into the late 2020s/early 2030s before they can get an engine as good as the RD-170. Their YF-130, while technically very good according to recent tests, is still a bit less efficient. Think about that, a 40 year gap. Aerospace is hard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-170 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-170
- chpatrick 3y ago
  I'm surprised that the Atlas V's first stage has these Russian engines.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    Using Russian engines, like the ISS collaboration was an attempt by the US to keep soviet rocket scientists in business in civilian roles so they wouldn't be incentivized to spread around the world proliferating ICBM tech. In the process the US paid a huge price (decay of domestic design capability) and it's debatable if the goal was achieved. Edit: Thankfully the decay has been made up for over recent years with the boom in private launch companies and of course, SpaceX's work.