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> In the United States and other western countries, a form of esophageal and stomach cancer has risen dramatically over the last five decades. Rates of esophage

> In the United States and other western countries, a form of esophageal and stomach cancer has risen dramatically over the last five decades. Rates of esophageal adenocarcinoma, or EAC, and gastric cardia adenocarcinoma, or GCA, are both highly fatal. According to this article: McColl, K.E.L. What is causing the rising incidence of esophageal adenocarcinoma in the West and will it also happen in the East?. J Gastroenterol 54, 669–673 (2019). part of the reason for the rising cancer is obesity. So what this AI tool does is make it safer to be obese, thereby causing long-term suffering for more of the population. And part of the reason why people are obese is because of technology doing so many things so efficiently for them. How about instead of developing more technology, we address the root problems instead? So far, all these medical solutions I have seen are bandaids that simply solve some of the problems of technology by creating more technology. However, the end result is a world where everything is so efficient that we'll simply have to do nothing and grow fat and purposeless...

orangepurple 3y ago
Obesity isn't a cause. Metabolic syndrome usually leads to obesity, and metabolic syndrome is the driver behind cancers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
- lm28469 3y ago
  > Metabolic syndrome usually leads to obesity Wikipedia says bad lifestyle leads to metabolic syndrome which leads to obesity. Also this thing didn't magically appear post ww2 by magic, at the exact same time as mass lack of exercise and dog shit diets
- merpnderp 3y ago
  They Mayo clinic says obesity (plus inactivity) is either the cause or closely linked. So while we can't say for sure, it seems pretty obvious that people who stop eating over 2k calories a day and get 30+ minutes of high quality exercise, will almost all be "cured".
lm28469 3y ago
> How about instead of developing more technology, we address the root problems instead? That's not a business plan. Panem et circenses, nothing changed since then, it's planned and there is no problem to fix.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Semaglutide and similar glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) receptor agonists are a mix of the business plan and a shim for humanity optimizing for ag infra structured to pump out garbage nutrition (subsidized carbs and corn syrup, factory farming of beef, etc).
wzdd 3y ago
It just seems like this allows earlier detection of the possibility of getting cancer, which surely means more opportunity to tell the patient to lose weight. By the time you've got stomach cancer, it's a little late. (Obesity still seems to be the major factor in the new test -- the old one required hip and waist measurements, and the new one does not, which says to me that they've found a bunch of correlates to obesity which don't require taking new measurements.)
insanitybit 3y ago
> So what this AI tool does is make it safer to be obese, thereby causing long-term suffering for more of the population. And part of the reason why people are obese is because of technology doing so many things so efficiently for them. What? How does that make sense? It's easier to be obese because now you won't die from cancer, therefor people will stay obese? I guess that's technically true but like... the alternative is they get cancer. If the assumption is "well, they'll get cancer and then they'll have a wake up call and lose weight, assuming they survive" I question how that's better than "they'll get a cancer diagnosis, very likely survive, and still understand the severity of their issue". I think you're also assuming that overweight people aren't aware of the problem. Anyone who's going to the dr and is overweight is going to be told flat out that they need to lose the weight to improve their health. Yes, it would be great to have some way to just not be overweight but I don't see how this research is making things worse.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  It is simply because you are not looking far enough. Yes, it is easier to get obese now. Imagine a world centuries ago, in the hunter-gatherer times. It was very hard to get obese then because it was a serious risk. Over time, technology has made it safer to get out of shape and obese. The alternative is they get cancer? Well, now more people might stay obese, perhaps just a small fraction, or people will be less motivated. Maybe it will be hard to calculate based on this one invention, but 100 inventions like this means more and more people will stop caring. Imagine a world where medicine has solved 100% of problems. Then you could just get obese very easily without much consequence. I am not assuming people who are overweight AREN'T aware. Of course they are, and some have a lot of difficulty losing weight. But some do, and now the incentive to do so is imperceptibly lessened.
  - insanitybit 3y ago
    > Imagine a world where medicine has solved 100% of problems. Then you could just get obese very easily without much consequence. Uh ok? And this.... this is a bad situation to you?

orangepurple 3y ago

Obesity isn't a cause. Metabolic syndrome usually leads to obesity, and metabolic syndrome is the driver behind cancers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

lm28469 3y ago
> Metabolic syndrome usually leads to obesity Wikipedia says bad lifestyle leads to metabolic syndrome which leads to obesity. Also this thing didn't magically appear post ww2 by magic, at the exact same time as mass lack of exercise and dog shit diets
merpnderp 3y ago
They Mayo clinic says obesity (plus inactivity) is either the cause or closely linked. So while we can't say for sure, it seems pretty obvious that people who stop eating over 2k calories a day and get 30+ minutes of high quality exercise, will almost all be "cured".

lm28469 3y ago

> How about instead of developing more technology, we address the root problems instead? That's not a business plan. Panem et circenses, nothing changed since then, it's planned and there is no problem to fix.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Semaglutide and similar glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) receptor agonists are a mix of the business plan and a shim for humanity optimizing for ag infra structured to pump out garbage nutrition (subsidized carbs and corn syrup, factory farming of beef, etc).

wzdd 3y ago

It just seems like this allows earlier detection of the possibility of getting cancer, which surely means more opportunity to tell the patient to lose weight. By the time you've got stomach cancer, it's a little late. (Obesity still seems to be the major factor in the new test -- the old one required hip and waist measurements, and the new one does not, which says to me that they've found a bunch of correlates to obesity which don't require taking new measurements.)

insanitybit 3y ago

> So what this AI tool does is make it safer to be obese, thereby causing long-term suffering for more of the population. And part of the reason why people are obese is because of technology doing so many things so efficiently for them. What? How does that make sense? It's easier to be obese because now you won't die from cancer, therefor people will stay obese? I guess that's technically true but like... the alternative is they get cancer. If the assumption is "well, they'll get cancer and then they'll have a wake up call and lose weight, assuming they survive" I question how that's better than "they'll get a cancer diagnosis, very likely survive, and still understand the severity of their issue". I think you're also assuming that overweight people aren't aware of the problem. Anyone who's going to the dr and is overweight is going to be told flat out that they need to lose the weight to improve their health. Yes, it would be great to have some way to just not be overweight but I don't see how this research is making things worse.

vouaobrasil 3y ago
It is simply because you are not looking far enough. Yes, it is easier to get obese now. Imagine a world centuries ago, in the hunter-gatherer times. It was very hard to get obese then because it was a serious risk. Over time, technology has made it safer to get out of shape and obese. The alternative is they get cancer? Well, now more people might stay obese, perhaps just a small fraction, or people will be less motivated. Maybe it will be hard to calculate based on this one invention, but 100 inventions like this means more and more people will stop caring. Imagine a world where medicine has solved 100% of problems. Then you could just get obese very easily without much consequence. I am not assuming people who are overweight AREN'T aware. Of course they are, and some have a lot of difficulty losing weight. But some do, and now the incentive to do so is imperceptibly lessened.
- insanitybit 3y ago
  > Imagine a world where medicine has solved 100% of problems. Then you could just get obese very easily without much consequence. Uh ok? And this.... this is a bad situation to you?