4 ms·

>driver problem, touchpad randomly not working, wifi failing, all of which I've had with thinkpads. Those are Linux driver issues, not HW issues.

organsnyder 3y ago
> Those are Linux issues, not HW issues. The touchpads on my wife's T470 and my T480 have very similar intermittent issues, despite her running Windows and me running Linux.
dlivingston 3y ago
That only matters in a technical sense -- as a consumer, I want a flawless out-of-the-box experience. I don't care if X isn't working because of Y or Z; I only care that it isn't working.
bee_rider 3y ago
Incompatibility is a two-sided issue, there are enough laptops out there that work perfectly fine in Linux. But a brand isn’t a technical promise, they’ll miss with some models and hit with others. People always complain about Lenovo in these threads, I think because they are held up as the “good non-Apple laptop” brand for whatever reason. I suspect this reputation makes people assume they can just grab any random model and it will work perfectly. That’s just a roll of the dice, maybe weighted in favor of working, but still random.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >But a brand isn’t a technical promise, they’ll miss with some models and hit with others. Sure, that's why there's now a dozen Laptop brands that ship with Linux compatibility in mind.
padjo 3y ago
And when I can’t join a call because the Wi-Fi has stopped working I’m sure everyone will appreciate that distinction
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Did Lenovo sell you the laptop with Linux compatibility explicitly stated?
Dylan16807 3y ago
They are very likely hardware issues that the Linux driver is simply not working around rather than being actually wrong.
kayodelycaon 3y ago
If you're using Linux and there are no good, reliable drivers for your machine, it might as well be a hardware issue.
olddustytrail 3y ago
If you're too lazy to make a Linux driver for your hardware, it's a hardware issue.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Maybe some HW companies don't have the budget to write drivers for the 3% userbase that is PC Linux users, especially since most commodity HW is in a constant race to the bottom in terms of pricing so profits are slim as it is. So better check for the HW you're buying it, if it's compatible with the SW you intend to use, especially now that there's almost a dozen laptop brands selling Linux-ready laptops. Like you don't buy an X-BOX hoping it will run your Nintendo games collection and the blame Mycroft when you realize it doesn't work, do you? And calling those driver devs "lazy" is a huge slap in the face, especially if you knew how overworked and underpaid people in that industry tend to be, as the profits are also very small. Not everyone is rolling in cash like Nvidia, AMD and Intel. This sub can be quite pretentious at times.
eru 3y ago
As a user, I don't really care about the root cause..

organsnyder 3y ago

> Those are Linux issues, not HW issues. The touchpads on my wife's T470 and my T480 have very similar intermittent issues, despite her running Windows and me running Linux.

dlivingston 3y ago

That only matters in a technical sense -- as a consumer, I want a flawless out-of-the-box experience. I don't care if X isn't working because of Y or Z; I only care that it isn't working.

bee_rider 3y ago

Incompatibility is a two-sided issue, there are enough laptops out there that work perfectly fine in Linux. But a brand isn’t a technical promise, they’ll miss with some models and hit with others. People always complain about Lenovo in these threads, I think because they are held up as the “good non-Apple laptop” brand for whatever reason. I suspect this reputation makes people assume they can just grab any random model and it will work perfectly. That’s just a roll of the dice, maybe weighted in favor of working, but still random.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>But a brand isn’t a technical promise, they’ll miss with some models and hit with others. Sure, that's why there's now a dozen Laptop brands that ship with Linux compatibility in mind.

padjo 3y ago

And when I can’t join a call because the Wi-Fi has stopped working I’m sure everyone will appreciate that distinction

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Did Lenovo sell you the laptop with Linux compatibility explicitly stated?

Dylan16807 3y ago

They are very likely hardware issues that the Linux driver is simply not working around rather than being actually wrong.

kayodelycaon 3y ago

If you're using Linux and there are no good, reliable drivers for your machine, it might as well be a hardware issue.

olddustytrail 3y ago

If you're too lazy to make a Linux driver for your hardware, it's a hardware issue.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Maybe some HW companies don't have the budget to write drivers for the 3% userbase that is PC Linux users, especially since most commodity HW is in a constant race to the bottom in terms of pricing so profits are slim as it is. So better check for the HW you're buying it, if it's compatible with the SW you intend to use, especially now that there's almost a dozen laptop brands selling Linux-ready laptops. Like you don't buy an X-BOX hoping it will run your Nintendo games collection and the blame Mycroft when you realize it doesn't work, do you? And calling those driver devs "lazy" is a huge slap in the face, especially if you knew how overworked and underpaid people in that industry tend to be, as the profits are also very small. Not everyone is rolling in cash like Nvidia, AMD and Intel. This sub can be quite pretentious at times.

eru 3y ago

As a user, I don't really care about the root cause..