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Why does having no driver suddenly enable this? You can do all this now, you just need a driver. Why is that the part that needs to be eliminated before you ca

Why does having no driver suddenly enable this? You can do all this now, you just need a driver. Why is that the part that needs to be eliminated before you can do all these things? All it is, is route planning based on demand. Uber, etc should be able to do all this now. Isn't that what Uber Pool was supposed to deliver? Nobody uses that shit for anything but a commute. Nobody wants to sit in a car with other random-ass people stopping 30 times to pick them up. That's half the reason people who drive don't take transit now. What is it about having no driver that suddenly makes cars green, free up space on the road, etc? Why would someone who owns a car now, want to wait around for a driverless taxi to pick them up? They can go into their driveway and be driven to their destination right away in their own personal driverless car. And if the car is gonna park itself, that means it's driving around, taking up more space on the road just looking for a parking spot. I mean think about it. If you can work for an hour while your car drives you to the office, and you don't have to stress or worry about the traffic, why would you even bother with anything else?

TillE 3y ago
Imagine being a human driver who has to constantly change routes based on what the computer tells you, switch vehicles based on demand, and not make any mistakes. That sounds exhausting. You're also occupying a seat which could be used by a passenger. A centrally-directed autonomous fleet of vehicles would be genuinely revolutionary for public transit, replacing everything from taxis to buses with a beautifully efficient system. I can't imagine not being excited by that.
quickthrower2 3y ago
> Why does having no driver suddenly enable this? No-driver will make it more economical eventually because: 1. There is no hourly wage to pay a driver. 2. The car can be utilized 24/7 (or most likely 16/7 based on demand, but much better than 8/5 of a typical shift driver). > What is it about having no driver that suddenly makes cars green, free up space on the road, etc? A confluence of things: electric cars, the cheaper rides, the critical mass of users so that algorithms can find ways for people to share. Remember if I am using a bus now, and this is offering me a 30 minute journey but (oof!) sharing with other people instead of 1 hour on a bus, this is a good switch. > Why would someone who owns a car now, want to wait around for a driverless taxi to pick them up? The reason is posted to you several times each year: "Car service" "Registration Fee" "Compulsory Check" "Your Toll Invoice" "Third Party Insurance" "Comprehensive Insurance" "Speeding Ticket" "Parking Ticket" and so on. And that assumes you don't crash (on in my case, hit/run done on your parked car) and have to deal with that hell. Selling your car, getting $X,000 and being free of all that is a relief. > If you can work for an hour while your car drives you to the office, and you don't have to stress or worry about the traffic, why would you even bother with anything else? Depends. Replace car with helicopter and the same applies. Not everyone wants to pay for a helicopter. Not everyone will want to pay for their own car when you can get it on demand. Say it costs $25 a day to own your own car and be taken, $10 a day for your own uber-like and $5 a day if you share. A lot of people will go for the savings. Even more so if cities add single-person taxes on cars to ease congestion.
- taurath 3y ago
  These efficiencies could be getting born out by the existing ride share apps but the promised efficiencies haven’t come to fruition at all yet. All subscription services like this have had high promises of cheaper and more economical service but they struggle to stay on par with legacy things they replace. Streaming services are rapidly approaching cable. Uber and Lyft are often more expensive than a yellow cab. There will be a very, very long time before a $80,000 self driving car and all the technology and services to make it self driving and service it automatically can undersell a driver making $35/hr after expenses in a $10,000 car that she owns, or a driver for a fleet making $25/hr.
  - cjalmeida 3y ago
    A fleet driver making $25/h already costs more than $80K per year, at lower utilization and less flexibility.
    - taurath 3y ago
      I think you’re missing my point - I don’t think it’s going to be cheap, or even economical compared to a cheap self owned vehicle, any time soon. I’m predicting it won’t be cheaper than Uber or Lyft until 3rd or 4th generations, especially when they try to earn a profit.
- philipwhiuk 3y ago
  > (or most likely 16/7 based on demand, but much better than 8/5 of a typical shift driver). Or more practically 4/5 plus a small amount outside that.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
There are cities on earth where taxis are ubiquitous and relatively affordable (even to locals making local wages). So nothing really changes there when the driver is eliminated (except maybe better traffic flows). But driverless might make ubiquitous taxis affordable in developed countries, it is a valid way of living. When I lived in Beijing, I used to commute to and from work by taxi, and used it for lots of other trips around town as well, and ya, not stressing about traffic was a bonus (but I changed my schedule so I would miss Beijing’s hellish rush hour).
mrweasel 3y ago
For me it's more to possibility to have the ideal car for each situation. Going to the dentist, order a one person car, pick up the kid, order a two person car or order a truck if I need to pick up something large. Utilizing smaller vehicles when ever possible will use less energi. Some one like me who lives in a small village could also opt to share a car with someone else if me and my partner wants go to the city for night out. A few of my coworkers live close to me, I wouldn't mind sharing a car with them if we happen to leave the office at the same time. There's small changes that will eventually yield pretty big results. Some German road scientists have a study that show that it's only a few percent difference in the number of cars on the road that leads to traffic jams for instance. Eliminate 5 - 10% or cars and traffic jams goes away, for the most part.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
My cities public transit system is currently limited by the number of drivers they can find. The pay is quite good, they just can't sign people up. This has lead to extreme inconsistencies where if a driver calls in sick a bus or train just won't show up for 30 minutes instead of the usual 10. Driverless busses allow for the system to greatly expand the number of routes and increase consistency.
- frumper 3y ago
  > The pay is quite good, they just can't sign people up. Quite good does not sound good enough.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    it's well into 6 figures in a MCOL area. If they paid any more they'd have to raise fares which would cause less people to use it.
    - frumper 3y ago
      Or raise taxes, pay more for drivers, and lower fares.
      - HDThoreaun 3y ago
        That would be nice, but the current funding level is already under political attack. There is absolutely no chance of increased funding when people are already incredibly pissed about the tax burden.

TillE 3y ago

Imagine being a human driver who has to constantly change routes based on what the computer tells you, switch vehicles based on demand, and not make any mistakes. That sounds exhausting. You're also occupying a seat which could be used by a passenger. A centrally-directed autonomous fleet of vehicles would be genuinely revolutionary for public transit, replacing everything from taxis to buses with a beautifully efficient system. I can't imagine not being excited by that.

quickthrower2 3y ago

> Why does having no driver suddenly enable this? No-driver will make it more economical eventually because: 1. There is no hourly wage to pay a driver. 2. The car can be utilized 24/7 (or most likely 16/7 based on demand, but much better than 8/5 of a typical shift driver). > What is it about having no driver that suddenly makes cars green, free up space on the road, etc? A confluence of things: electric cars, the cheaper rides, the critical mass of users so that algorithms can find ways for people to share. Remember if I am using a bus now, and this is offering me a 30 minute journey but (oof!) sharing with other people instead of 1 hour on a bus, this is a good switch. > Why would someone who owns a car now, want to wait around for a driverless taxi to pick them up? The reason is posted to you several times each year: "Car service" "Registration Fee" "Compulsory Check" "Your Toll Invoice" "Third Party Insurance" "Comprehensive Insurance" "Speeding Ticket" "Parking Ticket" and so on. And that assumes you don't crash (on in my case, hit/run done on your parked car) and have to deal with that hell. Selling your car, getting $X,000 and being free of all that is a relief. > If you can work for an hour while your car drives you to the office, and you don't have to stress or worry about the traffic, why would you even bother with anything else? Depends. Replace car with helicopter and the same applies. Not everyone wants to pay for a helicopter. Not everyone will want to pay for their own car when you can get it on demand. Say it costs $25 a day to own your own car and be taken, $10 a day for your own uber-like and $5 a day if you share. A lot of people will go for the savings. Even more so if cities add single-person taxes on cars to ease congestion.

taurath 3y ago
These efficiencies could be getting born out by the existing ride share apps but the promised efficiencies haven’t come to fruition at all yet. All subscription services like this have had high promises of cheaper and more economical service but they struggle to stay on par with legacy things they replace. Streaming services are rapidly approaching cable. Uber and Lyft are often more expensive than a yellow cab. There will be a very, very long time before a $80,000 self driving car and all the technology and services to make it self driving and service it automatically can undersell a driver making $35/hr after expenses in a $10,000 car that she owns, or a driver for a fleet making $25/hr.
- cjalmeida 3y ago
  A fleet driver making $25/h already costs more than $80K per year, at lower utilization and less flexibility.
  - taurath 3y ago
    I think you’re missing my point - I don’t think it’s going to be cheap, or even economical compared to a cheap self owned vehicle, any time soon. I’m predicting it won’t be cheaper than Uber or Lyft until 3rd or 4th generations, especially when they try to earn a profit.
philipwhiuk 3y ago
> (or most likely 16/7 based on demand, but much better than 8/5 of a typical shift driver). Or more practically 4/5 plus a small amount outside that.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

There are cities on earth where taxis are ubiquitous and relatively affordable (even to locals making local wages). So nothing really changes there when the driver is eliminated (except maybe better traffic flows). But driverless might make ubiquitous taxis affordable in developed countries, it is a valid way of living. When I lived in Beijing, I used to commute to and from work by taxi, and used it for lots of other trips around town as well, and ya, not stressing about traffic was a bonus (but I changed my schedule so I would miss Beijing’s hellish rush hour).

mrweasel 3y ago

For me it's more to possibility to have the ideal car for each situation. Going to the dentist, order a one person car, pick up the kid, order a two person car or order a truck if I need to pick up something large. Utilizing smaller vehicles when ever possible will use less energi. Some one like me who lives in a small village could also opt to share a car with someone else if me and my partner wants go to the city for night out. A few of my coworkers live close to me, I wouldn't mind sharing a car with them if we happen to leave the office at the same time. There's small changes that will eventually yield pretty big results. Some German road scientists have a study that show that it's only a few percent difference in the number of cars on the road that leads to traffic jams for instance. Eliminate 5 - 10% or cars and traffic jams goes away, for the most part.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

My cities public transit system is currently limited by the number of drivers they can find. The pay is quite good, they just can't sign people up. This has lead to extreme inconsistencies where if a driver calls in sick a bus or train just won't show up for 30 minutes instead of the usual 10. Driverless busses allow for the system to greatly expand the number of routes and increase consistency.

frumper 3y ago
> The pay is quite good, they just can't sign people up. Quite good does not sound good enough.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  it's well into 6 figures in a MCOL area. If they paid any more they'd have to raise fares which would cause less people to use it.
  - frumper 3y ago
    Or raise taxes, pay more for drivers, and lower fares.
    - HDThoreaun 3y ago
      That would be nice, but the current funding level is already under political attack. There is absolutely no chance of increased funding when people are already incredibly pissed about the tax burden.