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I've worked in a bunch of restaurants and now work with restaurant software (we're hiring some cool positions if you are interested [1]) The one thing I'd be a

I've worked in a bunch of restaurants and now work with restaurant software (we're hiring some cool positions if you are interested [1]) The one thing I'd be a bit wary about here is heat making that paper unreadable. I've seen a bunch of kitchens intend to run thermal printers in kitchens, but had to switch to impact printers because how quickly the paper would turn dark in the ambient heat in the kitchen, plus the heat lamps on expo station. Thankfully the author isn't relying on this for anything absolutely critical (also aviate, then navigate anyways) but I'd wonder if on a sunny day without any clouds there, how quickly that paper would degrade. [1] https://boards.greenhouse.io/touchbistro/jobs/5058791003 https://boards.greenhouse.io/touchbistro/jobs/5058791003

carloslagoa 3y ago
that's interesting, thanks for the insight -- I was aware of thermal's darkening but unaware of it's speed. I'll leave one out in the sun tomorrow, if I can have ~4hrs with it I'll be chuffed And, of course, as you said, aviate navigate communicate first :) Thanks!
- pierat 3y ago
  Yeah I've been "burned" by thermal receipts before. Had a receipt in my wallet. 30 days later, the thermal print completely faded. Had to dispute with credit card company over that one. Wasn't fun.
  - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
    Makes me wonder if "you need a receipt to claim warranty" is intentional like that. There's a few apps that can organize / OCR receipts for you, if a photo of a receipt is adequate. I don't actually know any and I may be talking out of my ass but err. I'm sure there are!
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      Over here in Poland, companies usually require a "proof of purchase", which can be a receipt or an invoice. As a buyer, it's up to you which one you want to receive[0]. There's a special kind of pseudo-invoice called "personal invoice", which is like a VAT invoice except you don't need to be a company or provide a tax ID for it. This is the one you want in any scenario when you expect to hold on to the proof of purchase for longer than it takes to reach the nearest trash can - its killer feature is that it can't possibly fit on a thermal paper receipt[1], so you get it printed out using regular, durable means, on regular office paper (and/or e-mailed as PDF). -- [0] - On-line you usually get to pick at check-out, off-line you usually have to ask before paying. [1] - Technically it could, but it would be quite an achievement, and it's sufficiently non-standard that nobody bothers.
      - garaetjjte 3y ago
        >and it's sufficiently non-standard that nobody bothers Some gas stations do!
clumsysmurf 3y ago
Also, most thermal paper is high in BPA/BPS. https://www.pca.state.mn.us/business-with-us/bpa-and-bps-in-thermal-paper https://www.pca.state.mn.us/business-with-us/bpa-and-bps-in-...
- chaxor 3y ago
  General Aviation still uses lead in their gas, despite it being shown several times in enormous nationwide studies consistently to not be necessary, and often simply requires more cost in maintenance (lead builds up on spark plugs causing a lot of issues). So environmental impact isn't high on their list already, and this BPA issue is very likely going to be completely ignored by anyone in that field.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Yes, but the avgas lead situation is primarily a problem for the people behind/under the aircraft, not inside the aircraft.
    - chaxor 3y ago
      You still have to fill it up by touching and breathing in the fumes while pumping it into the tank, so not exactly, but you're right that it does affect others as well.
      - Scoundreller 3y ago
        dunno about the evidence, but I kinda figured post-combustion lead is more atmospheric than pre-combustion lead. Elemental lead doesn't really absorb through the skin (and gas doesn't evaporate too well at low temperatures) as far as I know.
        hexaga 3y ago
        Lead added to fuel is in the form of an organic compound, so I'd expect the opposite effect. Obviously there's more distribution post combustion, but from a bio-availability standpoint spraying tetraethyl lead around in equivalent quantities would be a much more severe problem. Naively (without looking at data for concentrations in various environments), I could buy that people regularly handling / being around leaded aviation fuel are worse off than those breathing the (dilute) exhaust products.
Scoundreller 3y ago
Worth reading this Brother study on thermal paper degradation: https://www.anixter.com/content/dam/Suppliers/Brother/White%20Papers/ThermalPaperWhitePaper%20(WP1).pdf https://www.anixter.com/content/dam/Suppliers/Brother/White%... Worth looking at Figure 3 showing how different samples of thermal paper have vastly difference reactions to high temperatures. Once had a set of Aliexpress plastic water carriers take 6 months to arrive to me during COVID and it when it arrived, it seemed like the plasticizers from the carriers (or the factory?) severely degraded the thermal shipping label.
- andromaton 3y ago
  We use high temperature paper (170F, 20% dark at 6mJ/mm²). It will not turn dark left many days in a truck dashboard in the summer in Texas. I once found a stack of 7 year old receipts and they were completely readable.
jaredhallen 3y ago
True. And for some reason they always want to put the kitchen printer right under the heat lamps.
benoliver999 3y ago
Yeah in my experience you need a 'thermal transfer' printer instead. Uses a ribbon to transfer the ink rather than treated paper. A lot of manufacturers make the same printer in thermal transfer or direct thermal models.
glonq 3y ago
I used to develop smart parking meters, and we used thermal printers in those. You can get paper that tolerates high-temperature environments like the dashboard of a car on a hot sunny day.

carloslagoa 3y ago

that's interesting, thanks for the insight -- I was aware of thermal's darkening but unaware of it's speed. I'll leave one out in the sun tomorrow, if I can have ~4hrs with it I'll be chuffed And, of course, as you said, aviate navigate communicate first :) Thanks!

pierat 3y ago
Yeah I've been "burned" by thermal receipts before. Had a receipt in my wallet. 30 days later, the thermal print completely faded. Had to dispute with credit card company over that one. Wasn't fun.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  Makes me wonder if "you need a receipt to claim warranty" is intentional like that. There's a few apps that can organize / OCR receipts for you, if a photo of a receipt is adequate. I don't actually know any and I may be talking out of my ass but err. I'm sure there are!
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Over here in Poland, companies usually require a "proof of purchase", which can be a receipt or an invoice. As a buyer, it's up to you which one you want to receive[0]. There's a special kind of pseudo-invoice called "personal invoice", which is like a VAT invoice except you don't need to be a company or provide a tax ID for it. This is the one you want in any scenario when you expect to hold on to the proof of purchase for longer than it takes to reach the nearest trash can - its killer feature is that it can't possibly fit on a thermal paper receipt[1], so you get it printed out using regular, durable means, on regular office paper (and/or e-mailed as PDF). -- [0] - On-line you usually get to pick at check-out, off-line you usually have to ask before paying. [1] - Technically it could, but it would be quite an achievement, and it's sufficiently non-standard that nobody bothers.
    - garaetjjte 3y ago
      >and it's sufficiently non-standard that nobody bothers Some gas stations do!

clumsysmurf 3y ago

Also, most thermal paper is high in BPA/BPS. https://www.pca.state.mn.us/business-with-us/bpa-and-bps-in-thermal-paper https://www.pca.state.mn.us/business-with-us/bpa-and-bps-in-...

chaxor 3y ago
General Aviation still uses lead in their gas, despite it being shown several times in enormous nationwide studies consistently to not be necessary, and often simply requires more cost in maintenance (lead builds up on spark plugs causing a lot of issues). So environmental impact isn't high on their list already, and this BPA issue is very likely going to be completely ignored by anyone in that field.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  Yes, but the avgas lead situation is primarily a problem for the people behind/under the aircraft, not inside the aircraft.
  - chaxor 3y ago
    You still have to fill it up by touching and breathing in the fumes while pumping it into the tank, so not exactly, but you're right that it does affect others as well.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      dunno about the evidence, but I kinda figured post-combustion lead is more atmospheric than pre-combustion lead. Elemental lead doesn't really absorb through the skin (and gas doesn't evaporate too well at low temperatures) as far as I know.
      - hexaga 3y ago
        Lead added to fuel is in the form of an organic compound, so I'd expect the opposite effect. Obviously there's more distribution post combustion, but from a bio-availability standpoint spraying tetraethyl lead around in equivalent quantities would be a much more severe problem. Naively (without looking at data for concentrations in various environments), I could buy that people regularly handling / being around leaded aviation fuel are worse off than those breathing the (dilute) exhaust products.

Scoundreller 3y ago

Worth reading this Brother study on thermal paper degradation: https://www.anixter.com/content/dam/Suppliers/Brother/White%20Papers/ThermalPaperWhitePaper%20(WP1).pdf https://www.anixter.com/content/dam/Suppliers/Brother/White%... Worth looking at Figure 3 showing how different samples of thermal paper have vastly difference reactions to high temperatures. Once had a set of Aliexpress plastic water carriers take 6 months to arrive to me during COVID and it when it arrived, it seemed like the plasticizers from the carriers (or the factory?) severely degraded the thermal shipping label.

andromaton 3y ago
We use high temperature paper (170F, 20% dark at 6mJ/mm²). It will not turn dark left many days in a truck dashboard in the summer in Texas. I once found a stack of 7 year old receipts and they were completely readable.

jaredhallen 3y ago

True. And for some reason they always want to put the kitchen printer right under the heat lamps.

benoliver999 3y ago

Yeah in my experience you need a 'thermal transfer' printer instead. Uses a ribbon to transfer the ink rather than treated paper. A lot of manufacturers make the same printer in thermal transfer or direct thermal models.

glonq 3y ago

I used to develop smart parking meters, and we used thermal printers in those. You can get paper that tolerates high-temperature environments like the dashboard of a car on a hot sunny day.