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Sad to see what Iran has become - no in small part thanks to the US/UK's meddling and installing a crazed theocratic government. The Iranian people deserve so

Sad to see what Iran has become - no in small part thanks to the US/UK's meddling and installing a crazed theocratic government. The Iranian people deserve so much better - they are a nation of really smart people and would be a beacon in the Middle East if it wasn't for a bunch of religious reactionaries holding power. Some of the best engineers I've ever worked with were expat Iranians who left and have no intention of going back there.

daneel_w 3y ago
US/UK didn't install the current ruling set of islamists.
- behnamoh 3y ago
  That's not entirely true: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/ayatollah-khomeini-jimmy-carter-administration-iran-revolution https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/ayatollah-khom...
- ReptileMan 3y ago
  The same way the US didn't install the Taliban as the rulers of Afghanistan. Twice.
EA-3167 3y ago
The theocratic government was not installed by the US or UK though, they're the ones who overthrew the shah and took over.
enkid 3y ago
The US and UK assisted a nationalist and westernized monarch retain and consolidate power. They did not install a theocratic government. The current theocratic government came into power as a reaction against the Shah the British and US had helped.
- orwin 3y ago
  'retain'. He was democratically booted of Iran, and his first coup failed. The democratically elected president had even more western values and his only flaw was that he was a bit too socialist for the local elites, who couldn't have thrown him off without US pushing for cooperation.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
29athrowaway 3y ago
And how did that government started?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jamesaurichs 3y ago
The young generation of Iran doesn't buy into the whole blaming the US thing for something that happened 70 years (1 generation!!) ago - which the US tried to install a more westernized leader. A lot of anti-US people with agenda wants the world to think otherwise. Case in point: Mourners In Iran Refuse To Trample On Swedish, American Flags. https://www.iranintl.com/en/202307280335 https://www.iranintl.com/en/202307280335 Iranian students avoid stepping on images of U.S., Israeli flags. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNJLG8jCq1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNJLG8jCq1Q
- tacocataco 3y ago
  Sounds like the US can coup anyone it wants then and just wait 70 years! No worries all good!
  - loeg 3y ago
    Do you blame modern Germans for WW2? Why?
    - NoraCodes 3y ago
      The Nazi government was overthrown and its ideology outlawed. Not so with the United States.
      - loeg 3y ago
        In the US, the Truman and Eisenhower administrations are long out of power. Most Americans alive at the time this happened are dead now. Certainly the ones who were in power at the time.
        NoraCodes 3y ago
        That is not the same thing as systematically eradicating the institutions of power that allowed the atrocity to happen.
      - 3y ago
dogma1138 3y ago
The coup most definitely did not install a theocratic government, an autocratic one quite likely but lets not pretend that the western secular Iran of the 60’s people seem to be so fond off wasn’t there predominantly because of the Shah not despite of him. The Islamic Revolution didn’t succeed power by chance, whilst the Shah was opposed by many factions form secular communists to religious fanatics the reason why the mullahs came on top was because the majority of the population was a bunch of illiterate religious nut jobs. This is also why Turkey has regressed so much, the secular metropolitan elite that followed Ataturk’s legacy was and is out numbered by the rural masses at least 3 to 1. At some point something had to give which is now why you have decades of Erdogan.
- ReptileMan 3y ago
  >At some point something had to give which is now why you have decades of Erdogan. What gave was the usual brilliance of Brussels. The generals were plotting to kill him on national TV as they usually did, but around 2005-6 EU leaders started pearl clutching about religious freedom and how Turkey would never enter EU if not human rights or similar bullshit - so Turkey is still outside of EU, no chance of getting in, but they enjoy serious regress in freedoms, Islamization and a monkey with a wrench in charge of their economy.
  - dogma1138 3y ago
    It’s laughable that people blame the EU for Turkey’s regression. 2nd the 3rd generation Turks in the EU are amongst Erdogan’s most radical supporters, Erdogan got a far greater share of the overseas ballots from EU member states than he did back in Turkey, in fact the only two countries where the opposition had a lead were the UK and US. Turkey always had a demographic problem, just like Iran does, it’s not in the EU because it could not resolve its own demographic problem not that it’s demographic problem was somehow due to the EU closing the door on Turkey’s membership.
    - ReptileMan 3y ago
      It was about EU meddling in Turkey affairs. If the army had dealt with Erdogan in the early 00s the secular faction of Turkish society would still be on top. Of course the EU votes would go to Erdogan - the people that moved to Germany were from his power base demographic.
jl6 3y ago
> a nation of really smart people Measured how?
psunavy03 3y ago
> Sad to see what Iran has become - no in small part thanks to the US/UK's meddling and installing a crazed theocratic government. This is some tinfoil-hatted nonsense. I'll be charitable and assume you're unfamiliar with the history, as opposed to a conspiracy theorist who thinks the CIA is behind everything you think is wrong with the world. Rightly or wrongly, the US and UK went after Mossadegh precisely because the Shah was pro-Western, anti-Soviet, and a staunch ally of the US. Similar in some respects to why the Saudis have been a US ally for so long, although that is starting to fray. Both were authoritarian governments which nevertheless closely aligned themselves with US foreign policy in the region, and got some of our best gear and support in return . . . this is why Iran to this day flies so many 1960s-late 1970s Western platforms in its Air Force such as F-4s, F-5s, and F-14s. They are the only nation we ever sold the Tomcat to, and the Shah personally picked it over the F-15 Eagle, which was also on the table. The Ayatollahs hated the Shah and have hated the US since the beginning. They call us the Great Satan. If you aren't familiar with the storming of the US Embassy in Tehran and the consequences that had on US history, then you're talking out the wrong end of your alimentary canal about anything Iran- or Middle East-related. The Carter administration attempted Operation Eagle Claw, a do-or-die hostage rescue attempt using special operations forces which went horribly wrong. The storming of the embassy and the failure of Eagle Claw were a national embarrassment. They fed into an overall narrative that Jimmy Carter was a weak, ineffectual, and bumbling President, and were a key driver in Ronald Reagan winning the Presidency in 1980. As a final stick in the eye, the Ayatollahs waited until Reagan had been sworn in to release the Embassy hostages. So no, the US and UK didn't "install" a bunch of theocrats. They opposed this, and the results of that opposition had historic consequences throughout the 70s and 80s and beyond to the present day.
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  > As a final stick in the eye, the Ayatollahs waited until Reagan had been sworn in to release the Embassy hostages. You say that as though there were no quid pro quo involved.
- danbruc 3y ago
  Was it not as follows? Mossadegh wanted the control over Iranian oil back, therefore the US and UK got rid of him which allowed Pahlavī to become dictator and he was supported by them to gain influence, oil, and defense against the Soviet Union. Especially with weapons. But the way he treated the people eventually made them unite behind Chomeini and that was the end for the Shah. This was of course not good, so the USA supported Hussein in his war against Iran. He became the enemy when he decided that Kuwait would be an easier target than Iran.
hollerith 3y ago
The "crazed theocrats" were the ones that (in 1979 or so) overthrew the government installed by the US and the UK.

daneel_w 3y ago

US/UK didn't install the current ruling set of islamists.

behnamoh 3y ago
That's not entirely true: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/ayatollah-khomeini-jimmy-carter-administration-iran-revolution https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/ayatollah-khom...
ReptileMan 3y ago
The same way the US didn't install the Taliban as the rulers of Afghanistan. Twice.

EA-3167 3y ago

The theocratic government was not installed by the US or UK though, they're the ones who overthrew the shah and took over.

enkid 3y ago

The US and UK assisted a nationalist and westernized monarch retain and consolidate power. They did not install a theocratic government. The current theocratic government came into power as a reaction against the Shah the British and US had helped.

orwin 3y ago
'retain'. He was democratically booted of Iran, and his first coup failed. The democratically elected president had even more western values and his only flaw was that he was a bit too socialist for the local elites, who couldn't have thrown him off without US pushing for cooperation.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

29athrowaway 3y ago

And how did that government started?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jamesaurichs 3y ago

The young generation of Iran doesn't buy into the whole blaming the US thing for something that happened 70 years (1 generation!!) ago - which the US tried to install a more westernized leader. A lot of anti-US people with agenda wants the world to think otherwise. Case in point: Mourners In Iran Refuse To Trample On Swedish, American Flags. https://www.iranintl.com/en/202307280335 https://www.iranintl.com/en/202307280335 Iranian students avoid stepping on images of U.S., Israeli flags. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNJLG8jCq1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNJLG8jCq1Q

tacocataco 3y ago
Sounds like the US can coup anyone it wants then and just wait 70 years! No worries all good!
- loeg 3y ago
  Do you blame modern Germans for WW2? Why?
  - NoraCodes 3y ago
    The Nazi government was overthrown and its ideology outlawed. Not so with the United States.
    - loeg 3y ago
      In the US, the Truman and Eisenhower administrations are long out of power. Most Americans alive at the time this happened are dead now. Certainly the ones who were in power at the time.
      - NoraCodes 3y ago
        That is not the same thing as systematically eradicating the institutions of power that allowed the atrocity to happen.
    - 3y ago

dogma1138 3y ago

The coup most definitely did not install a theocratic government, an autocratic one quite likely but lets not pretend that the western secular Iran of the 60’s people seem to be so fond off wasn’t there predominantly because of the Shah not despite of him. The Islamic Revolution didn’t succeed power by chance, whilst the Shah was opposed by many factions form secular communists to religious fanatics the reason why the mullahs came on top was because the majority of the population was a bunch of illiterate religious nut jobs. This is also why Turkey has regressed so much, the secular metropolitan elite that followed Ataturk’s legacy was and is out numbered by the rural masses at least 3 to 1. At some point something had to give which is now why you have decades of Erdogan.

ReptileMan 3y ago
>At some point something had to give which is now why you have decades of Erdogan. What gave was the usual brilliance of Brussels. The generals were plotting to kill him on national TV as they usually did, but around 2005-6 EU leaders started pearl clutching about religious freedom and how Turkey would never enter EU if not human rights or similar bullshit - so Turkey is still outside of EU, no chance of getting in, but they enjoy serious regress in freedoms, Islamization and a monkey with a wrench in charge of their economy.
- dogma1138 3y ago
  It’s laughable that people blame the EU for Turkey’s regression. 2nd the 3rd generation Turks in the EU are amongst Erdogan’s most radical supporters, Erdogan got a far greater share of the overseas ballots from EU member states than he did back in Turkey, in fact the only two countries where the opposition had a lead were the UK and US. Turkey always had a demographic problem, just like Iran does, it’s not in the EU because it could not resolve its own demographic problem not that it’s demographic problem was somehow due to the EU closing the door on Turkey’s membership.
  - ReptileMan 3y ago
    It was about EU meddling in Turkey affairs. If the army had dealt with Erdogan in the early 00s the secular faction of Turkish society would still be on top. Of course the EU votes would go to Erdogan - the people that moved to Germany were from his power base demographic.

jl6 3y ago

> a nation of really smart people Measured how?

psunavy03 3y ago

> Sad to see what Iran has become - no in small part thanks to the US/UK's meddling and installing a crazed theocratic government. This is some tinfoil-hatted nonsense. I'll be charitable and assume you're unfamiliar with the history, as opposed to a conspiracy theorist who thinks the CIA is behind everything you think is wrong with the world. Rightly or wrongly, the US and UK went after Mossadegh precisely because the Shah was pro-Western, anti-Soviet, and a staunch ally of the US. Similar in some respects to why the Saudis have been a US ally for so long, although that is starting to fray. Both were authoritarian governments which nevertheless closely aligned themselves with US foreign policy in the region, and got some of our best gear and support in return . . . this is why Iran to this day flies so many 1960s-late 1970s Western platforms in its Air Force such as F-4s, F-5s, and F-14s. They are the only nation we ever sold the Tomcat to, and the Shah personally picked it over the F-15 Eagle, which was also on the table. The Ayatollahs hated the Shah and have hated the US since the beginning. They call us the Great Satan. If you aren't familiar with the storming of the US Embassy in Tehran and the consequences that had on US history, then you're talking out the wrong end of your alimentary canal about anything Iran- or Middle East-related. The Carter administration attempted Operation Eagle Claw, a do-or-die hostage rescue attempt using special operations forces which went horribly wrong. The storming of the embassy and the failure of Eagle Claw were a national embarrassment. They fed into an overall narrative that Jimmy Carter was a weak, ineffectual, and bumbling President, and were a key driver in Ronald Reagan winning the Presidency in 1980. As a final stick in the eye, the Ayatollahs waited until Reagan had been sworn in to release the Embassy hostages. So no, the US and UK didn't "install" a bunch of theocrats. They opposed this, and the results of that opposition had historic consequences throughout the 70s and 80s and beyond to the present day.

JKCalhoun 3y ago
> As a final stick in the eye, the Ayatollahs waited until Reagan had been sworn in to release the Embassy hostages. You say that as though there were no quid pro quo involved.
danbruc 3y ago
Was it not as follows? Mossadegh wanted the control over Iranian oil back, therefore the US and UK got rid of him which allowed Pahlavī to become dictator and he was supported by them to gain influence, oil, and defense against the Soviet Union. Especially with weapons. But the way he treated the people eventually made them unite behind Chomeini and that was the end for the Shah. This was of course not good, so the USA supported Hussein in his war against Iran. He became the enemy when he decided that Kuwait would be an easier target than Iran.

hollerith 3y ago

The "crazed theocrats" were the ones that (in 1979 or so) overthrew the government installed by the US and the UK.