6 ms·
Artists have forgotten how to draw
- david927 3y agoThis is an unfortunate by-product of the times. To paint well, you first have to draw well. And drawing well can only be accomplished with both serious talent, discipline and an egregious amount of hours in classic study. Which is not so different than, say, the violin. But the art world is a cover for money laundering so there's been a collapse of criticism and expectations to the point where, literally, anything goes and almost all of it is complete dross. There are a few warm embers still out there, as the author mentioned, but only two true schools and he missed one and mislabeled the other. The Florence Classical Arts Academy (where my daughter spent part of her high school years) and, even better, the Imperial Academy of Arts in St. Petersburg. Surprisingly, the former has as many Russian teachers as the latter.
- JJMcJ 3y agoMaybe not money laundering but often there are organized groups of dealers who combine to pump up a specific artist, and dump their inventory. Buy up works. Easier if the artist is not alive. Start placing articles, puff pieces on the artist. Interest increases, prices rise, sell off inventory. When inventory gone, end the PR blitz.
- JJMcJ 3y agoOn the other hand: Paying too much for something is a known money laundering technique. Example, pay a "web shop" in a tax haven country for a web site redesign. Who's to say what "should have" been paid.
- 2big2fail_47 3y agobecause contemporary art has emancipated itself from painting. I would argue that the globalized, highly technological world needs new formats to deal with these new realities. The eternal lamentation that art has lost its craft is simply no longer appropriate.
- david927 3y agocontemporary art has emancipated itself from taste
- jfengel 3y agoContemporary art has emancipated itself from your taste. It now serves every conceivable taste. Including yours, though you may have to (like everyone else) look around to find what you want.
- actionfromafar 3y agousually does
- 2big2fail_47 3y agoBut that's exactly the point. Contemporary art is not about taste, it's about reflecting on the world we are living in. Economy, politics, technology... Just look at artists like Simon Denny or Hito Steyerl
- Exuma 3y agoDon’t even get me started. The general population values realism, replication, and mindless feats of willpower. Most people don’t realize simplification and economy of stroke is orders of magnitude more difficult, and takes a true lifetime to master. Capturing a complex subject in 3 perfect strokes which uses visual language to convey what it is. Nothing wrong with either, but the amount of sackriding for the former just gets tiring.
- david927 3y agoYou're not disagreeing with the author. No one complains about Picasso, Cezanne or Van Gogh. They mastered the process and --only then-- took it to new places. What we're seeing is a sea of people using Expressionism as a veil for lack of training. A virtuoso at the piano may experiment with discordant notes. A novice banging on the piano keys and calling it music is not the same thing.
- ilyt 3y ago> A virtuoso at the piano may experiment with discordant notes. A novice banging on the piano keys and calling it music is not the same thing. That's why I always chuckle at people scowling at learning music theory because of "originality, like, if you don't you'd just reinvent most of it on your own...
- ksaj 3y agoI hear that a lot. And I always ask the same thing in return: Show me a riff, within the context of a song, that you came up with entirely on your own, and demonstrates the benefits you have obtained by not being held back by learning music theory. They always play a variation of something you can trace back to one of their favourite songs. A blind copy. No doubt by someone who actually does understand the theory. So, "theory holds you back" should be followed by "from copying your heroes and knowing why they make the musical choices they make."
- solomonb 3y ago
- pixl97 3y agoDid we forget how to draw... or are there so many people involved in the arts these days that there are far more poor artists? This article is completely subjective in the sense is there is no statistics of how many 'good' artists there were in their supposed golden days versus what we have now. I fully expected the article to end in 'git off muh lawn'.
- Zetobal 3y agoThe first three semester every evening our whole illustration class had to draw chair still lifes for 3 hours. The prof would come arrange some chairs and went home... it's still a fucking pain in univeristies that do a classic curiculum.
- creer 3y agoI ran into a drawing instructor like that. Now I can laugh about it. I was fortunate that I didn't have to ever, ever choose to take another class with that guy. His focus was his dinner. He was still there. But busy. For everyone playing at home it's a style of art teaching that goes "you know what to do. get to it." (On the rationale that the brush/pencil mileage is the only thing that will do the teaching. Ugh.)
- MisterBastahrd 3y agoOne of the things that's sort of annoyed me recently is the number of artists who begin every video of their artwork with "Everything you're about to see is drawn by me in painstaking detail, taking over XXXX hours to complete" and then they show off a photorealistic pencil drawing. Yeah, it's cool. And I guess if you want to talk about art in a purely technical sense of taking a recording instrument to paper or a canvas and creating an image, then it qualifies. But there's no interpretation there. Basically just one of the world's slowest photocopying machines. Technical talent with zero imagination.
- fivre 3y agotechnical skill matters, and using that technique skillfully for realist interpretations is one of the easier bridges for neophytes to understand the technique abstract interpretation within the confines of a particular medium is harder to appreciate if you haven't seen manifestations you can readily understand
- lacrimacida 3y agoPlenty of people get bogged down in techinque and never evolve beyond that, choosing to acquire as many tricks as if it’s a numbers contest. But I agree that some time alone practicing some skill is an important part of the process, the only difference is in measure. Too much obsession with skill is harmful
- creer 3y agoThis is disingenuous. First, classical anatomy copy drawing is rarely mandatory in art school because that's not what art is about anymore. (For another discussion, that it never was.) This was not inadvertent, not done while nobody noticed. Instructors and students noticed that art had changed. Classical drawing schools still exist if you insist. Second, drawing still very much happens in art - it's just not the kind of anatomy obsession these people care about. Just like they call "art" a very specific sub-part of the art world. And it's not like David Hockney himself draws in that style anyway. He could but he doesn't. He has taste, he has interests, and this isn't it. Can it come handy, useful? - sure - but so can a million other things.
- voldacar 3y agoSorry but I think Michaelangelo and Leonardo knew much more about art than you.
- creer 3y agoFor your definition of "art", most likely yes.
- david927 3y agoThe interesting thing is that music composers don't do this. They know music theory. They don't hit a bassoon with a tennis racquet and say, "Your definition of music may vary."
- creer 3y agoThe dancer in Stomp may or may not know music theory. And analogies may or may not be useful. I will argue or grant that most visual artists do learn to see - even though they very much do not all see the same thing because seeing is also subject to preferences and intellectual choices. Visual arts have certainly gone far and wide. For much of it, even calling it "visual" is a stretch. Sure.
- Teever 3y agoCan anyone recommend some good online resources to learn how to draw? It's a skill that I've always wanted to improve but I don't know where to begin.
- chaps 3y agoMy brother, an artist who has not forgotten how to draw, immediately gave me his copy of Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain when I asked the same question a few years back. https://www.drawright.com/ https://www.drawright.com/
- webnrrd2k 3y agoAlso, Keys to Drawing, by Dodson is really good, with more of an emphasis leading to painting. The Natural Way to Draw, by Nickolaides, is really good for life drawing.
- hairofadog 3y agoAnother good one: Fast Sketching Techniques by David Rankin https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/fast-sketching-techniques-capture-the-fundamental-essence-of-elusive-subjects_david-rankin/37792433/ https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/fast-sketching-techniques-capt...
- creer 3y agoConsider what drawing means to you, or what style really is important. Sketching is very much vibrant, alive, well and creative. With many, many books dedicated to that direction. Life drawing same things. Which "drawing" direction attracts you? This is pushing it a bit but there are lists like: https://webneel.com/different-types-of-drawing-styles-techniques-mediums https://webneel.com/different-types-of-drawing-styles-techni... https://finearttutorials.com/guide/drawing-styles https://finearttutorials.com/guide/drawing-styles A more likely approach is to consider which artists you like and what they do. If it is perspective in travel sketches that interests you, then don't waste time on classical anatomy.
- egl2021 3y ago
- gsatic 3y agoCalvin & Hobbes man thats all you need. No better example of the smallest of dots and sqiggles having magical effects on people. Bill Watersom didnt go to a fine arts school. He just found Beauty in the simplest of things.
- creer 3y agoVery much so! Another artist who couldn't draw :-) If playing at home: Picasso learned some classical drawing, and could do it, and moved on from it by age 12 or something (I kid. By a year or two.) Watterson, erm, less so - and it turns out did very well with a different kind of expression.
- webnrrd2k 3y agoThere is a difference that I can see in the work of artists who have spent time learning to draw, and those that haven't. I can't explain it, but I can see it. I think it's because classical drawing teaches you some basic perceptual skills that are very hard to pick up any other way. It gets you out of your head and gets you to see what's actually there, not what you think is there. It's kind of a subtle difference, but it's important. Not learning to perceive things in that manner is a big handicap for many artists. They don't even need to produce work in a classic or representational style. But it's still aparent if they are lacking those skills. Another thing is that drawing, via rough sketches and prep work, provides a way to work out the bugs in your finished work. It provides a way to actually think out what you're doing, in the same way that writing about something is actually thinking about it [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36560254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36560254
- creer 3y agoLearning to see does still matter, yes. It's not the same as classical anatomy copy drawing. And seeing color (which is really hard for the common civilian) is not going to happen through classical anatomy. So we can choose our battles while still paying attention. Architecture schools try to teach seeing also - not through classical anatomy.
- sakopov 3y agoI really think that just like everything else in modern times, drawing or the act of actually doing something that requires talent or skill is too laborious to get monetized for. The other day on YouTube, I saw a guy swinging an upside-down bucket of paint over canvas while standing next to it with another person and discussing the entire thing like they were watching Michelangelo paint the Sistine Chapel. He has hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Later, came across another artist who makes hyper-realistic pencil drawings of people where each picture takes 2 to 3 months to make and looks literally like a photo-copy. He has a couple of thousand subs and barely gets any views.
- seanthemon 3y agoHonestly this is more the difference between putting your personality to your art vs just your art - I also post my paintings online but I hardly get the views of people making shorts with their face and revealing the artwork, usually no matter how mediocre it will have a lot of followers.
- vouaobrasil 3y agoThe reason for this is that content creation is no longer about the content per se, and I say this as a content creator myself. Content created today serves two functions beyond actually producing something that another person will appreciate for its artistic beauty: (1) It serves as a place where other people gather to interact. People gather in such ways now more than ever because of the loneliness created by advanced technology. Therefore, being trendy is more important than being artistic. That's why total garbage like the Avengers movies is so successful: it's because it panders to the lowest common denominator and therefore is an ideal gathering place for the lost souls stranded by technology. (2) If content is not a place for people to gather, then it is simply content that teaches other people to produce more content. In fact, some of the most successful content on YouTube is simply content designed to help people produce other content that no one will watch most of the time. While both these functions were active to some extent in humanity's past, it is only now that they function to their full extent. They are magnified by modern technology and other reasons for art are being minimized.
- 3y ago
- Animats 3y agoWho's doing all the book covers and advertising art, then? There's plenty of good realistic art coming out from young artists. Take a look at anime fan art. This is not a lost skill.
- snerbles 3y agoPublished manga artists in general often have a very strong command of anatomy.
- creer 3y agoAmerican comic artists are often big fans of attention to anatomy - however deformed - and will go on forever discussing it :-) But manga or anime? really? Do you please have interviews or other presentations where that comes up? I found this one, where it seems more of a hobby: https://www.crunchyroll.com/news/interviews/2023/6/9/interview-hells-paradise-creator-yuji-kaku-on-his-creative-journey https://www.crunchyroll.com/news/interviews/2023/6/9/intervi...
- Animats 3y agoAnime fan art, from Fanime 2023.[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjhUNTKqua4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjhUNTKqua4
- creer 3y agoI'm familiar with manga and anime art, pro or fan. This is not the level of anatomy we were talking about. Not even close. Classical anatomy drawing is this kind of thing: https://www.google.com/search?q=classical+anatomy+drawing+shoulder+muscle&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=classical+anatomy+drawing+sh... https://www.google.com/search?q=classical+drawing+florence+anatomy+study&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=classical+drawing+florence+a... This does have direct application in american superhero comics. There the artist draws detailed muscle modelling and attempts to place tendons and shape of underlying bones all in the right place. Even when the character is really not human :-) I looked for one but wasn't able to quickly pull a video showing a critique arguing that some muscle is not quite located and anchored correctly. I rarely see that concern in manga or anime. Very little in the video you linked would show such a concern. The usual manga artist does proportions, yes, often altered to serve their intent - but in my mind rarely goes to that intention of physical correctness. Let's try and pull some manga muscle ... this is NOT classical drawing or derived from that: https://www.google.com/search?q=manga+sports+muscle&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=manga+sports+muscle&tbm=isch
- karaterobot 3y ago> Despite these accolades, Stuart knows that there is always more to learn: “She’s hesitant about calling herself an artist,” says Horler, “And that is quite a traditional view. It shows how misunderstood art is today, that people can just call themselves artists… From the Renaissance right up until at least the Twenties, you had to qualify. And that’s missing now.” It seems like when we decided that art doesn't have to be representational, having traditional drafting and drawing skills began a slow and perfectly rational decline. Is that even controversial? It may not be coincidental that the role of fine art in our culture declined at the same time as well, but that's a conjecture I can't defend in this paragraph. On the other hand, there are more illustrators than ever, and illustrators still often technical chops and craftsmanship. Comic book artists and digital painters and the like are (or were, before AI) flourishing and doing really exciting work in the non-fine-art space.
- canvascritic 3y agoI guess we all admire the classics, but what about all the talent on platforms like deviantart? it's a new age, and these artists are pushing boundaries in ways unimaginable to the old masters. contemporary art is more than just NFTs. it's about expressing ideas in fresh, innovative ways. so instead of longing for the past, let's embrace the evolution of art.
- mbivert 3y agoI've found digital works to often display more creativity than non-digital ones. My pet theory is that digital tools remove so many constraints over traditional mediums: infinite undo, no color mixing, a full chromatic palette, "liquify", layers, etc. that artists have more room to experiment. Finding a balance between tradition and novelty is perhaps the most comfortable position: tradition brings experience accumulated over many lifetimes, it's foolish to reject it. But it's equally unwise to systematically reject novelty either.
- watwut 3y agoHyperrealistic drawings are a thing. And so are classes focused on classical drawing.
- smitty1e 3y agoWe stumbled onto "Landscape Artist of the Year"[0] some years ago. While preferring more realistic art, just watching a random selection of people get their humanity on while under a deadline is the most fascinating and relaxing viewing imaginable. My prejudice against impressionistic art didn't survive any real time with this series. One artist in the first couple of series fit my stereotype of the smug young jackwagon treating the whole thing like a joke. Highly recommended. [0] https://www.skyartsartistoftheyear.tv/landscape/ https://www.skyartsartistoftheyear.tv/landscape/
- frabbit 3y agoI love that series. There is also Portrait Artist of the Year with the same presenters.
- jtode 3y agoArtists who know how to draw have been treated with loathing for decades. Plenty of people still know how to draw, they're just not getting hired as artists, because only content creators are being hired for roles that would have been filled by artists in other contexts.