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Most cows raised in the US are not raised on grazed grass, they're raised on corn and soy. That process is very inefficient when compared to growing plants that

Most cows raised in the US are not raised on grazed grass, they're raised on corn and soy. That process is very inefficient when compared to growing plants that we eat directly. And we don't really need an optimal mix of amino acids as long as we get enough amino acids. Fretting about precisely balancing the mix is unnecessary.

nradov 3y ago
Nope, you've got that mostly wrong from a dietary standpoint. It's really tough to get enough leucine, lysine, and methionine for optimal health and building muscle while eating a plant based diet without also getting too many carbohydrates. The ratios in most plants are not great. I mean in principle it can be done through careful meal planning (and perhaps some supplements) but most people just don't have time for that. Seriously, listen to the interview I linked above and then read the referenced journal articles. That will clear up some of your misconceptions. I do agree that we should shift away from monocrop agriculture to produce fodder for cattle feedlots and toward regenerative agriculture. Some farms are now doing that with productivity comparable to factory farming so it will be interesting to see if that model can be scaled up enough to cheaply feed a huge population.
- myshpa 3y ago
  > I mean in principle it can be done through careful meal planning (and perhaps some supplements) but most people just don't have time for that. That's not true. 25% of your plate should be proteins (lentils, beans, tofu, tempeh, seitan, peas ...), 25% whole grains (brown rice, quinoa, whole wheat bread, whole grain pasta), 30% vegetables (variety of colors to get different nutrients), 10-15% fruit (apple, banana, berries), 5-10% fats (avocados, nuts, seeds, or a drizzle of olive oil). That's it. Variety is the key. The only supplement you need is B12, which you can get from either pills or fortified milk, yogurt, cereals, and other sources.
  - nradov 3y ago
    Nope. You have no idea what my nutritional needs are, nor are you numbers even close to optimal. To start with, the notion of dividing a plate based on percentages is ridiculous and displays a clear ignorance of the basics. For optimal performance we need at least a certain minimum amount of high quality protein (right essential amino acids) based on a ratio to lean body mass regardless of how much we are eating. That's a fixed number, not a percentage. It's sad how confidently wrong many HN users are whenever we have discussions about diet and nutrition. People read something somewhere that aligns with their preconceived biases and then they repeat it back without doing real validation. If your want to see empirically what actually works then ignore the gurus and junk science you see online, and instead look at the diets of masters athletes who have been competing at high levels for decades (including recovering from injuries). The percentages on their plates are substantially different from your numbers, and the majority eat a significant amount of animal products.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      I'd wager that you're a bodybuilder. Those folks are consistently at the forefront of their nutrition game. > instead look at the diets of masters athletes who have been competing at high levels for decades (including recovering from injuries). https://pha.berkeley.edu/2021/04/11/benefits-of-plant-based-diets-in-athletic-performance/ https://pha.berkeley.edu/2021/04/11/benefits-of-plant-based-... Research studies have found that plant-based diets are effective in decreasing weight, creating leaner bodies through decreases in body fat percentage, and enhancing athletic endurance https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a25797700/plant-based-diet-recovery/ https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a25797700/plant-based-diet... New Research Shows a Plant-Based Diet Can Improve Recovery Time - It’s good for your cardiovascular health, too—especially if you usually run long distances https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30634559/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30634559/ Plant-based diets appear to reduce cardiovascular risk factors and offer potential performance advantages for endurance athletes by improving body composition, glycogen storage, vascular function, and reducing oxidative stress. https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/features/vegan-athletes-plant-based-diet/ https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/features/vegan-athletes-p... "This is a message to all those out there who think that you need animal products to be fit and strong. Almost two years after becoming vegan I am stronger than ever before and I am still improving day by day." “Don’t listen to those self-proclaimed nutrition gurus and the supplement industry trying to tell you that you need meat, eggs and dairy to get enough protein." “There are plenty of plant-based protein sources and your body is going to thank you for stopping feeding it with dead food. Go vegan and feel the power" - Patrik Bouboumian > https://peterattiamd.com/donlayman/ https://peterattiamd.com/donlayman/ "Don currently consults for many food industry companies including Kraft, Nestle, Hershey, the Dairy Council, the Egg Board, and the Beef Board" I think that this Don who's cozying up with all the big players in the food industry must be a real beacon of impartiality and enlightenment. Who needs objectivity when you can have a buffet of conflicting interests?

nradov 3y ago

Nope, you've got that mostly wrong from a dietary standpoint. It's really tough to get enough leucine, lysine, and methionine for optimal health and building muscle while eating a plant based diet without also getting too many carbohydrates. The ratios in most plants are not great. I mean in principle it can be done through careful meal planning (and perhaps some supplements) but most people just don't have time for that. Seriously, listen to the interview I linked above and then read the referenced journal articles. That will clear up some of your misconceptions. I do agree that we should shift away from monocrop agriculture to produce fodder for cattle feedlots and toward regenerative agriculture. Some farms are now doing that with productivity comparable to factory farming so it will be interesting to see if that model can be scaled up enough to cheaply feed a huge population.

myshpa 3y ago
> I mean in principle it can be done through careful meal planning (and perhaps some supplements) but most people just don't have time for that. That's not true. 25% of your plate should be proteins (lentils, beans, tofu, tempeh, seitan, peas ...), 25% whole grains (brown rice, quinoa, whole wheat bread, whole grain pasta), 30% vegetables (variety of colors to get different nutrients), 10-15% fruit (apple, banana, berries), 5-10% fats (avocados, nuts, seeds, or a drizzle of olive oil). That's it. Variety is the key. The only supplement you need is B12, which you can get from either pills or fortified milk, yogurt, cereals, and other sources.
- nradov 3y ago
  Nope. You have no idea what my nutritional needs are, nor are you numbers even close to optimal. To start with, the notion of dividing a plate based on percentages is ridiculous and displays a clear ignorance of the basics. For optimal performance we need at least a certain minimum amount of high quality protein (right essential amino acids) based on a ratio to lean body mass regardless of how much we are eating. That's a fixed number, not a percentage. It's sad how confidently wrong many HN users are whenever we have discussions about diet and nutrition. People read something somewhere that aligns with their preconceived biases and then they repeat it back without doing real validation. If your want to see empirically what actually works then ignore the gurus and junk science you see online, and instead look at the diets of masters athletes who have been competing at high levels for decades (including recovering from injuries). The percentages on their plates are substantially different from your numbers, and the majority eat a significant amount of animal products.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    I'd wager that you're a bodybuilder. Those folks are consistently at the forefront of their nutrition game. > instead look at the diets of masters athletes who have been competing at high levels for decades (including recovering from injuries). https://pha.berkeley.edu/2021/04/11/benefits-of-plant-based-diets-in-athletic-performance/ https://pha.berkeley.edu/2021/04/11/benefits-of-plant-based-... Research studies have found that plant-based diets are effective in decreasing weight, creating leaner bodies through decreases in body fat percentage, and enhancing athletic endurance https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a25797700/plant-based-diet-recovery/ https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a25797700/plant-based-diet... New Research Shows a Plant-Based Diet Can Improve Recovery Time - It’s good for your cardiovascular health, too—especially if you usually run long distances https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30634559/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30634559/ Plant-based diets appear to reduce cardiovascular risk factors and offer potential performance advantages for endurance athletes by improving body composition, glycogen storage, vascular function, and reducing oxidative stress. https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/features/vegan-athletes-plant-based-diet/ https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/features/vegan-athletes-p... "This is a message to all those out there who think that you need animal products to be fit and strong. Almost two years after becoming vegan I am stronger than ever before and I am still improving day by day." “Don’t listen to those self-proclaimed nutrition gurus and the supplement industry trying to tell you that you need meat, eggs and dairy to get enough protein." “There are plenty of plant-based protein sources and your body is going to thank you for stopping feeding it with dead food. Go vegan and feel the power" - Patrik Bouboumian > https://peterattiamd.com/donlayman/ https://peterattiamd.com/donlayman/ "Don currently consults for many food industry companies including Kraft, Nestle, Hershey, the Dairy Council, the Egg Board, and the Beef Board" I think that this Don who's cozying up with all the big players in the food industry must be a real beacon of impartiality and enlightenment. Who needs objectivity when you can have a buffet of conflicting interests?