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That's the one kind of inflation which didn't bother me too much. I still go out just as much I just drink less. That's healthier. The property situation makes

by pydry 3y ago

That's the one kind of inflation which didn't bother me too much. I still go out just as much I just drink less. That's healthier. The property situation makes me far more angry. The UK construction and property industry completely lacks market discipline and quality regulations have been reduced (see: Grenfell where that literally killed people, but also the shocking build quality of most properties). Then there was the restriction of homebuilding - deliberately engineered by successive governments in order to jack up property prices and parasitically extract a greater % of Londoner incomes via rents. When the Tories talked about being Singapore-on-Thames I wished they meant build thousands of nice HDB apartment blocks and get tough on corruption but alas it seems what they actually meant was Moscow-on-Thames - make London an even bigger haven for oligarchs and dial up the corruption with more no bid government contracts to their mates.

noelwelsh 3y ago
Here's some data corroborating this: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/indexofprivatehousingrentalprices/july2023 https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bull... As you can see, London rents are increasing at an accelerating rate.
- Tarsul 3y ago
  thanks for the stats. Most often, rental stats are for new leases but actually those are numbers also for current renters (" The index not only measures the change in newly advertised rental prices, but reflects price changes for all private rental properties, including for existing tenancies."). 5% rent increases last year...
flower-giraffe 3y ago
| quality regulations have been reduced (see: Grenfell where that literally killed people. Grenfell was a horrible tragedy. It was built as social housing in the 50’s or 60’s to a much higher standard (in terms of space and utility) than the so called luxury apartments of Canary Wharf. The installation of cladding to modernise the building to meet modern energy efficiency standards and the apparent failure to make sure that work was completed within the regulations seems to be the cause of the catastrophic spread of the fire. London planning is a complete mess. We waste millions on poorly executed projects to modernise social housing to save on CO2 emissions and at the same time we have the wealthy living in Victorian and older houses that are not allowed to install double glazing in order “to preserve the character of the property”.
- pydry 3y ago
  Yes, the fact that you can draw a direct line between recent watered down regulations designed to bring in more profit for the construction industry and 72 people being burned alive just makes it that much worse. London planning isn't an accidental mess. It's a deliberately engineered mess designed to let property/land owners and construction companies act as a parasite on the productive economy.
gadders 3y ago
Net migration of 600k/year also affects property prices.
- pydry 3y ago
  The UK could very well easily up with net emigration and still have rising rents. New York in the 1950s ran a very high level of immigration (GIs returning from the war) and had the strongest rent controls it ever had. Neither property prices nor rents rose very much. London only passed the population threshold it reached in 1939 in 2015 - LONG after rents and property prices had been jacked up to eye watering levels. Building social housing isn't hard, it just requires a government that operates on behalf of the working classes (who want a roof over their head) rather than land owners (who will try to stymie that process in every way they can in order to jack up rents and asset valuations).
  - gadders 3y ago
    Well, yes, I guess we could grow our population indefinitely until we tarmac over all of the UK to house them.
    - pydry 3y ago
      Land usage is horrendously inefficient in the UK and that is largely by design. Immigration might exacerbate rent rises all other things being equal but as I said it could just as easily happen with net migration too. With Singapore you could argue that immigration is a key issue with their rising rents because proportionally it's so much higher than the UK, they make very efficient use of land and they are very much more space deprived. In the UK it's not an issue with immigration because other variables override it. That is unless somebody is really in the mood to indirectly take the issue to a xenophobic or a racist place on behalf of a few populist property oligarchs looking for an easy scapegoat.
      - gadders 3y ago
        I'm not sure what distinction you are drawing between "immigration" and "net migration"? Net Migration is just all the people that have immigrated (moved to) to a country minus all those that have emigrated (left) a country. That is the figure of 600k for the UK currently. >> In the UK it's not an issue with immigration because other variables override it. Care to name some? I guess you could say that UK housing is "inefficient" but again, I'm not sure making people live in tower blocks just so that more people from other countries can move here is all that fair of a solution, or if it is what people are proposing at least make it explicit and have it as a party policy that people can vote on. TBH property oligarchs would favour high migration because of the effect it has on property values and rents.
isaacremuant 3y ago
The terrible thing is how they destroy old house from the inside and build multiple flats with terrible quality at huge prices because renters are pretty much in a dire situation and, stuff like RTO and centralization, makes it even worse for them (commute cost+rent cost+living cost in those areas) All the while charging extremely high tax rates that get distributed to who knows what, the war on Ukraine, maybe.
jwmoz 3y ago
I used the beer example as it happened that day. Same goes for restaurant food etc.

by pydry 3y ago

noelwelsh 3y ago

Here's some data corroborating this: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/indexofprivatehousingrentalprices/july2023 https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bull... As you can see, London rents are increasing at an accelerating rate.

Tarsul 3y ago
thanks for the stats. Most often, rental stats are for new leases but actually those are numbers also for current renters (" The index not only measures the change in newly advertised rental prices, but reflects price changes for all private rental properties, including for existing tenancies."). 5% rent increases last year...

flower-giraffe 3y ago

| quality regulations have been reduced (see: Grenfell where that literally killed people. Grenfell was a horrible tragedy. It was built as social housing in the 50’s or 60’s to a much higher standard (in terms of space and utility) than the so called luxury apartments of Canary Wharf. The installation of cladding to modernise the building to meet modern energy efficiency standards and the apparent failure to make sure that work was completed within the regulations seems to be the cause of the catastrophic spread of the fire. London planning is a complete mess. We waste millions on poorly executed projects to modernise social housing to save on CO2 emissions and at the same time we have the wealthy living in Victorian and older houses that are not allowed to install double glazing in order “to preserve the character of the property”.

pydry 3y ago
Yes, the fact that you can draw a direct line between recent watered down regulations designed to bring in more profit for the construction industry and 72 people being burned alive just makes it that much worse. London planning isn't an accidental mess. It's a deliberately engineered mess designed to let property/land owners and construction companies act as a parasite on the productive economy.

gadders 3y ago

Net migration of 600k/year also affects property prices.

pydry 3y ago
The UK could very well easily up with net emigration and still have rising rents. New York in the 1950s ran a very high level of immigration (GIs returning from the war) and had the strongest rent controls it ever had. Neither property prices nor rents rose very much. London only passed the population threshold it reached in 1939 in 2015 - LONG after rents and property prices had been jacked up to eye watering levels. Building social housing isn't hard, it just requires a government that operates on behalf of the working classes (who want a roof over their head) rather than land owners (who will try to stymie that process in every way they can in order to jack up rents and asset valuations).
- gadders 3y ago
  Well, yes, I guess we could grow our population indefinitely until we tarmac over all of the UK to house them.
  - pydry 3y ago
    Land usage is horrendously inefficient in the UK and that is largely by design. Immigration might exacerbate rent rises all other things being equal but as I said it could just as easily happen with net migration too. With Singapore you could argue that immigration is a key issue with their rising rents because proportionally it's so much higher than the UK, they make very efficient use of land and they are very much more space deprived. In the UK it's not an issue with immigration because other variables override it. That is unless somebody is really in the mood to indirectly take the issue to a xenophobic or a racist place on behalf of a few populist property oligarchs looking for an easy scapegoat.
    - gadders 3y ago
      I'm not sure what distinction you are drawing between "immigration" and "net migration"? Net Migration is just all the people that have immigrated (moved to) to a country minus all those that have emigrated (left) a country. That is the figure of 600k for the UK currently. >> In the UK it's not an issue with immigration because other variables override it. Care to name some? I guess you could say that UK housing is "inefficient" but again, I'm not sure making people live in tower blocks just so that more people from other countries can move here is all that fair of a solution, or if it is what people are proposing at least make it explicit and have it as a party policy that people can vote on. TBH property oligarchs would favour high migration because of the effect it has on property values and rents.

isaacremuant 3y ago

The terrible thing is how they destroy old house from the inside and build multiple flats with terrible quality at huge prices because renters are pretty much in a dire situation and, stuff like RTO and centralization, makes it even worse for them (commute cost+rent cost+living cost in those areas) All the while charging extremely high tax rates that get distributed to who knows what, the war on Ukraine, maybe.

jwmoz 3y ago

I used the beer example as it happened that day. Same goes for restaurant food etc.