4 ms·

Subscription fee, with scan limit for something that works entirely on-device and with barcodes that likely will not change for years feels weird. Even weirder

Subscription fee, with scan limit for something that works entirely on-device and with barcodes that likely will not change for years feels weird. Even weirder as I understand from other comments, that scan will fail without internet entirely due to licensing server being unreachable. Strong always-online single-player games vibe.

alex_suzuki 3y ago
Hey there, I understand where you're coming from. Monetizing these types of libraries based on performed transactions or active devices is pretty standard. The internet connection is only required for the license check which occurs at initialization time, typically once per application session (in case of an SPA). One thing to consider is that with web apps, an internet connection is kind of a requirement anyway - with completely offline-capable PWAs being the exception. Typical barcode scanning apps will want to report or look up data associated with a scanned code from an API backend. And yeah, I'm annoyed too when I'm stuck in a login queue when I want to play Diablo 4 in single-player mode.
- csours 3y ago
  Industrial apps are often served from a private network with no access to the internet - I understand if you don't want to target that sector, but it is a real use case.
  - alex_suzuki 3y ago
    My hope is that these customers will opt for the Enterprise license which works completely offline. But hey, finding product-market fit is hard. :-) Thanks for your input!
    - criddell 3y ago
      How much does the enterprise license cost?
      - alex_suzuki 3y ago
        Happy to send you the Enterprise license factsheet, please send an email to the address listed on the site.
  - jacobr1 3y ago
    Looks like they do support that at their "enterprise" licensing tier
  - reactordev 3y ago
    One that drives sales in the retail sector. “Do I have to be online in order to accept scans/payments/etc?”. If I’m a small business owner and want to scan my stock, I have to pay for the privilege, when my USB scanner works without internet and costs me $160. I really don’t think this will fly at the price/subscription they are selling it for. Especially when there’s cheaper/free options available. [1] [1] https://github.com/maslick/koder https://github.com/maslick/koder
    - alex_suzuki 3y ago
      I guess I will find out. :-)
- dzikimarian 3y ago
  > Monetizing these types of libraries based on performed transactions or active devices is pretty standard. Honestly I haven't seen it much. Yearly support/update fee of course, but this is new, very sad trend.
afavour 3y ago
Meh. I agree that there are a bunch of reasons this won't appeal to many but if this was as reliable as it claims to be and I had a business reason to use it I'd gladly pay the money just to get that functionality off my plate. It could be easily justifiable if customer conversions required a barcode scan. Easier scanning = more $$$. Online-only isn't ideal but I'd imagine the vast majority of use cases here are going to be always-online anyway (what are you going to do with the barcode value if not send it somewhere?)
- mike_d 3y ago
  > vast majority of use cases here are going to be always-online anyway (what are you going to do with the barcode value if not send it somewhere?) Developers need to understand that connected to a network != path to the internet. The developers site isn't even accessible from China: http://www.chinafirewalltest.com/?siteurl=strich.io http://www.chinafirewalltest.com/?siteurl=strich.io
  - afavour 3y ago
    > Developers need to understand that connected to a network != path to the internet. Developers need to understand that "vast majority" does not mean "all" and that if you're using an internal network you'd want an enterprise license, which allows for fully offline capabilities. I get that it's annoying but I don't see a whole lot of other options if you're pricing per scan.
    - dzikimarian 3y ago
      Well, there's option of not pricing per scan, when scan doesn't generate ongoing cost for library developer. That's something we need to understand as customers, unless we want more ideas like subscription-based seat heating in cars, just because it's normalized behavior.
      - afavour 3y ago
        > Well, there's option of not pricing per scan, when scan doesn't generate ongoing cost for library developer. Which, again, is offered! (the actual issue here isn't per scan pricing, it's that the web makes it very difficult to stop someone grabbing a library from site X to use it on site Y. One of few methods to do so is to use a license key which has to be validated)
mike_d 3y ago
It looks like you just need to generate a JWT with the 'offline' and 'analyticsOptOut' capabilities set and patch 'prodPubKey' with the signing key you use. (Obviously you should pay for the product, but fuck anyone who builds a product that works entirely offline except for a license check)
hahn-kev 3y ago
Nice! So if this 3rd party server goes offline it takes down your operation. I hope it's not very important.

alex_suzuki 3y ago

Hey there, I understand where you're coming from. Monetizing these types of libraries based on performed transactions or active devices is pretty standard. The internet connection is only required for the license check which occurs at initialization time, typically once per application session (in case of an SPA). One thing to consider is that with web apps, an internet connection is kind of a requirement anyway - with completely offline-capable PWAs being the exception. Typical barcode scanning apps will want to report or look up data associated with a scanned code from an API backend. And yeah, I'm annoyed too when I'm stuck in a login queue when I want to play Diablo 4 in single-player mode.

csours 3y ago
Industrial apps are often served from a private network with no access to the internet - I understand if you don't want to target that sector, but it is a real use case.
- alex_suzuki 3y ago
  My hope is that these customers will opt for the Enterprise license which works completely offline. But hey, finding product-market fit is hard. :-) Thanks for your input!
  - criddell 3y ago
    How much does the enterprise license cost?
    - alex_suzuki 3y ago
      Happy to send you the Enterprise license factsheet, please send an email to the address listed on the site.
- jacobr1 3y ago
  Looks like they do support that at their "enterprise" licensing tier
- reactordev 3y ago
  One that drives sales in the retail sector. “Do I have to be online in order to accept scans/payments/etc?”. If I’m a small business owner and want to scan my stock, I have to pay for the privilege, when my USB scanner works without internet and costs me $160. I really don’t think this will fly at the price/subscription they are selling it for. Especially when there’s cheaper/free options available. [1] [1] https://github.com/maslick/koder https://github.com/maslick/koder
  - alex_suzuki 3y ago
    I guess I will find out. :-)
dzikimarian 3y ago
> Monetizing these types of libraries based on performed transactions or active devices is pretty standard. Honestly I haven't seen it much. Yearly support/update fee of course, but this is new, very sad trend.

afavour 3y ago

Meh. I agree that there are a bunch of reasons this won't appeal to many but if this was as reliable as it claims to be and I had a business reason to use it I'd gladly pay the money just to get that functionality off my plate. It could be easily justifiable if customer conversions required a barcode scan. Easier scanning = more $$$. Online-only isn't ideal but I'd imagine the vast majority of use cases here are going to be always-online anyway (what are you going to do with the barcode value if not send it somewhere?)

mike_d 3y ago
> vast majority of use cases here are going to be always-online anyway (what are you going to do with the barcode value if not send it somewhere?) Developers need to understand that connected to a network != path to the internet. The developers site isn't even accessible from China: http://www.chinafirewalltest.com/?siteurl=strich.io http://www.chinafirewalltest.com/?siteurl=strich.io
- afavour 3y ago
  > Developers need to understand that connected to a network != path to the internet. Developers need to understand that "vast majority" does not mean "all" and that if you're using an internal network you'd want an enterprise license, which allows for fully offline capabilities. I get that it's annoying but I don't see a whole lot of other options if you're pricing per scan.
  - dzikimarian 3y ago
    Well, there's option of not pricing per scan, when scan doesn't generate ongoing cost for library developer. That's something we need to understand as customers, unless we want more ideas like subscription-based seat heating in cars, just because it's normalized behavior.
    - afavour 3y ago
      > Well, there's option of not pricing per scan, when scan doesn't generate ongoing cost for library developer. Which, again, is offered! (the actual issue here isn't per scan pricing, it's that the web makes it very difficult to stop someone grabbing a library from site X to use it on site Y. One of few methods to do so is to use a license key which has to be validated)

mike_d 3y ago

It looks like you just need to generate a JWT with the 'offline' and 'analyticsOptOut' capabilities set and patch 'prodPubKey' with the signing key you use. (Obviously you should pay for the product, but fuck anyone who builds a product that works entirely offline except for a license check)

hahn-kev 3y ago

Nice! So if this 3rd party server goes offline it takes down your operation. I hope it's not very important.