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Thanks, that makes a ton of sense, smaller/better by design but equipped to handle the same kinds of problems that JavaScript does. Is there any advantage to w

by err4nt 3y ago

Thanks, that makes a ton of sense, smaller/better by design but equipped to handle the same kinds of problems that JavaScript does. Is there any advantage to writing in Dart and transpiling that to JavaScript?

no_wizard 3y ago
They ended up pivoting to focusing mainly on mobile. At this point Flutter is the reason people use Dart, more or less. Their JS pipeline is really lacking as a result
- refulgentis 3y ago
  It's damn good* as is, but there's one major problem, and a fork in the road where it looks like they'll focus on WASM moving forward. The major problem is...you can't use an Isolate on web, put more simply, everything** is on the main thread unless you go to extremes of segmenting out the code you want on another thread, compile that to JS separately, then call into it from a web worker in JS that you invoke from Dart. I'm told web devs comfy with JS don't see this as a huge deal but for me with a mobile-only background, it's convoluted and fragile They have a preview of compiling to WASM working, web apps already feel _slick_ but apparently they're seeing a 3x speedup. I don't know enough to know if this fixes the problem above, but I would put money JS staying as is and WASM will be the web story moving forward * if i read grandparent as "what's the quality of a Dart web app?" ** there's caveats here, ex. I'm 90% sure things like network loads and image loads arent literally on the main thread, i.e. the browser implementation of the APIs flutter calls into is non-blocking. It doesn't really matter though, unless your app is so simple you either don't have custom operations that run long enough to cause significant frame drops
  - cogman10 3y ago
    > I would put money JS staying as is and WASM will be the web story moving forward Ditto. WASM needs just 1 piece to be pretty much widely generalizable, GC. Once that happens, things will get pretty exciting. Access to a platform garbage collector will allow pretty much any language imaginable ship to WASM with some pretty minimal runtime overhead. And GC for WASM is due to hit pretty soon. I'm looking forward to the revival of Applets :D [1] https://github.com/WebAssembly/gc/blob/main/proposals/gc/MVP.md https://github.com/WebAssembly/gc/blob/main/proposals/gc/MVP...

by err4nt 3y ago

no_wizard 3y ago

They ended up pivoting to focusing mainly on mobile. At this point Flutter is the reason people use Dart, more or less. Their JS pipeline is really lacking as a result

refulgentis 3y ago
It's damn good* as is, but there's one major problem, and a fork in the road where it looks like they'll focus on WASM moving forward. The major problem is...you can't use an Isolate on web, put more simply, everything** is on the main thread unless you go to extremes of segmenting out the code you want on another thread, compile that to JS separately, then call into it from a web worker in JS that you invoke from Dart. I'm told web devs comfy with JS don't see this as a huge deal but for me with a mobile-only background, it's convoluted and fragile They have a preview of compiling to WASM working, web apps already feel _slick_ but apparently they're seeing a 3x speedup. I don't know enough to know if this fixes the problem above, but I would put money JS staying as is and WASM will be the web story moving forward * if i read grandparent as "what's the quality of a Dart web app?" ** there's caveats here, ex. I'm 90% sure things like network loads and image loads arent literally on the main thread, i.e. the browser implementation of the APIs flutter calls into is non-blocking. It doesn't really matter though, unless your app is so simple you either don't have custom operations that run long enough to cause significant frame drops
- cogman10 3y ago
  > I would put money JS staying as is and WASM will be the web story moving forward Ditto. WASM needs just 1 piece to be pretty much widely generalizable, GC. Once that happens, things will get pretty exciting. Access to a platform garbage collector will allow pretty much any language imaginable ship to WASM with some pretty minimal runtime overhead. And GC for WASM is due to hit pretty soon. I'm looking forward to the revival of Applets :D [1] https://github.com/WebAssembly/gc/blob/main/proposals/gc/MVP.md https://github.com/WebAssembly/gc/blob/main/proposals/gc/MVP...