5 ms·

I agree with you and I'm saddened by the nihilist (and defeatist!) outlook that many people seem to have here. I'm fundamentally a humanist. I want humanity to

I agree with you and I'm saddened by the nihilist (and defeatist!) outlook that many people seem to have here. I'm fundamentally a humanist. I want humanity to survive and thrive. I never understood the defeatism. It seems to arise from having the intellect to recognize that humans can (and do) have impact on their environment, and in the same breath resign on that impact being only negative and thus declaring that humans as a species should go extinct. But there's so much good in this world that people do, isn't that worth saving? We know our capabilities are only limited by our own imagination, so why not strive for a grander human civilization that can span at least the solar system, if not the galaxy? We can try, and we may still fail. Nothing is certain, except the way to ensure our demise by accepting that our fate is to go extinct and do nothing about it.

lazide 3y ago
Eh, frankly it’s giving too much rational basis to emotional states IMO. People posting on web forums, especially engineers, like to poke holes in things and aren’t big into expansion and exploration at the moment. Probably a bit depressed from sitting in front of their computers all day too. Ask someone who just spent a month on the pacific coast trail, or who is about to go to Antarctica the question, and you’ll get a different set of answers.
- oceanplexian 3y ago
  I think it's more than the web but the way media is being curated. I'm one of those people who's really optimistic about society. However being a positive person is actually a lot of work. I basically have to tune out all modern movies, television, news. Every new TV show is about some dystopia or the end of the world or a Zombie apocalypse or whatever. I watch mostly old TV shows from the 50s and 60s and read science fiction. In rare cases I'll watch a new show that's actually positive. You have to be careful though, even long-running franchises can quickly turn toxic when Hollywood gets a hold of it; Star Trek was headed that way until Strange New Worlds came out.
NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
> I never understood the defeatism. It seems to arise from having the intellect to recognize that humans can It actually correlates really well with the advent of teaching young children to be guilty about the civilization which gave birth to them. Maybe we shouldn't be slamming first graders with the ideas that everyone who came before them were supervillains and that they must shoulder the burden of correcting long dead injustices. In any event, doesn't much matter. Every week there's a new article about how one nation or another has below-replacement fertility that doesn't seem to have any real prospect for reversing (tied to, more than anything else I think, what was described above). We are probably already a dying species, or at least heading into a post-civilization phase, and just don't know it yet.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
tuyiown 3y ago
I think you are over-reading it. The nihilistic mindset is not necessarily defeatism, it's just accepting that it does not matter in the universe-wide grand scheme of things. I personally think that it's the most pragmatic view, if not the most rationale: with such an approach, only actions that are truly achievable retains attentions, if we try something, let's do the things that matters in the long run instead of trying literals shot in the stars. Also, given the systematic and very damaging polarisation of all debates, I like being able to distance myself: it does not matter in the long run, so if the toxics annihilation has to happen, I won't be part of it, and it's probably the best I can actually do.
- safety1st 3y ago
  Nihilism is a nuanced concept that many great thinkers have grappled with but "web forum nihilism" isn't. Internet nihilism usually just reads like someone who is suffering from some sort of depressive or anxiety disorder and expressing their symptoms, like catastrophization, over the 'net. What I submit is that we are living in a society with a record level of depression, anxiety and other mental illnesses (the US for example is prescribing record levels of antidepressants). This record level of mental illness is simply spilling over onto the Internet. Why so many people in our society are ill is left as an exercise for the reader.
  - bornfreddy 3y ago
    > (the US for example is prescribing record levels of antidepressants) I would argue that this is mostly very (too) efficient marketing and sales though, cynical as it sounds.
  - tuyiown 3y ago
    I would attribute depression and surge of mental illness to the fact that there is actually much less to be optimistic for in our times than not so long abo, instead of ideals or ideologies. Let's be pragmatic about it.

lazide 3y ago

Eh, frankly it’s giving too much rational basis to emotional states IMO. People posting on web forums, especially engineers, like to poke holes in things and aren’t big into expansion and exploration at the moment. Probably a bit depressed from sitting in front of their computers all day too. Ask someone who just spent a month on the pacific coast trail, or who is about to go to Antarctica the question, and you’ll get a different set of answers.

oceanplexian 3y ago
I think it's more than the web but the way media is being curated. I'm one of those people who's really optimistic about society. However being a positive person is actually a lot of work. I basically have to tune out all modern movies, television, news. Every new TV show is about some dystopia or the end of the world or a Zombie apocalypse or whatever. I watch mostly old TV shows from the 50s and 60s and read science fiction. In rare cases I'll watch a new show that's actually positive. You have to be careful though, even long-running franchises can quickly turn toxic when Hollywood gets a hold of it; Star Trek was headed that way until Strange New Worlds came out.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

> I never understood the defeatism. It seems to arise from having the intellect to recognize that humans can It actually correlates really well with the advent of teaching young children to be guilty about the civilization which gave birth to them. Maybe we shouldn't be slamming first graders with the ideas that everyone who came before them were supervillains and that they must shoulder the burden of correcting long dead injustices. In any event, doesn't much matter. Every week there's a new article about how one nation or another has below-replacement fertility that doesn't seem to have any real prospect for reversing (tied to, more than anything else I think, what was described above). We are probably already a dying species, or at least heading into a post-civilization phase, and just don't know it yet.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

tuyiown 3y ago

I think you are over-reading it. The nihilistic mindset is not necessarily defeatism, it's just accepting that it does not matter in the universe-wide grand scheme of things. I personally think that it's the most pragmatic view, if not the most rationale: with such an approach, only actions that are truly achievable retains attentions, if we try something, let's do the things that matters in the long run instead of trying literals shot in the stars. Also, given the systematic and very damaging polarisation of all debates, I like being able to distance myself: it does not matter in the long run, so if the toxics annihilation has to happen, I won't be part of it, and it's probably the best I can actually do.

safety1st 3y ago
Nihilism is a nuanced concept that many great thinkers have grappled with but "web forum nihilism" isn't. Internet nihilism usually just reads like someone who is suffering from some sort of depressive or anxiety disorder and expressing their symptoms, like catastrophization, over the 'net. What I submit is that we are living in a society with a record level of depression, anxiety and other mental illnesses (the US for example is prescribing record levels of antidepressants). This record level of mental illness is simply spilling over onto the Internet. Why so many people in our society are ill is left as an exercise for the reader.
- bornfreddy 3y ago
  > (the US for example is prescribing record levels of antidepressants) I would argue that this is mostly very (too) efficient marketing and sales though, cynical as it sounds.
- tuyiown 3y ago
  I would attribute depression and surge of mental illness to the fact that there is actually much less to be optimistic for in our times than not so long abo, instead of ideals or ideologies. Let's be pragmatic about it.