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"The landowning class tired of squatters and so created an extrajudicial vigilante crew to beat up those who don't own property" isn't the virtuous solution you

"The landowning class tired of squatters and so created an extrajudicial vigilante crew to beat up those who don't own property" isn't the virtuous solution you think it is. Nor is it safe for the goon squad. If squaters start responding to such behavior by shooting on site anybody who tries to break into the building, the law will protect them because threat of bodily harm is more important than abuse of property ownership. And it should be. Ownership of real estate implies responsibilities to the community who are inextricably tied to the geographic proximity to that real estate. Don't own more than you can maintain. Don't own more than you can use. If you have entire groups of people coming into your property and setting up shop for months at a time without your knowledge, maybe you own too much. (Incidentally, that ethos applies to more than just squatting. The Catholic church in Philadelphia got fined a pile of money because they abandoned a church and failed to either sell it or pay the money to maintain it. It ended up with a water main break in the basement that nobody detected because nobody was on the property, and the water poured openly into the sewer system for months. The city find them for every drop of water that got wasted in that open pipe because that pipe was their responsibility; it was in their property).

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Many of us are worried just about going on vacation. Will I come home to an empty safe home after a two week trip abroad? Because it isn’t guaranteed anymore.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  Is that an issue people are seeing regularly? This story does not indicate it is.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Yes, it is pretty common now (although, I guess it depends on your definition of common!): https://www.quora.com/I-just-arrived-home-from-a-beautiful-vacation-to-find-squatters-living-in-my-home-now-I-m-the-one-living-homeless-while-the-cops-and-legal-proceedings-handle-this-what-should-I-do-next https://www.quora.com/I-just-arrived-home-from-a-beautiful-v... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLegsj31Pp8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLegsj31Pp8 https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2023/07/03/squatters-rights-leave-homeowners-forgotten/70364321007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2023/07/03/squatters-... https://www.foxnews.com/us/maryland-resident-squatters-bedroom-belongings-sold https://www.foxnews.com/us/maryland-resident-squatters-bedro... It has happened in Seattle already, enough for me to be worried about it. Everyone should think about it before leaving on vacation, since it is a real thing that you need to protect yourself against. Even if you rent, someone could break in to your place, change the locks, and then have a scrawled out fraudulent lease document. You would eventually get your place back, but being homeless for 3-6 months sucks. This just isn't a rich house speculator problem (though they are more at risk, of course).
    - shadowgovt 3y ago
      It still sounds like a "well-heeled enough to disappear for weeks" problem though. A person doing that should be making arrangements for their property to be checked up on regularly; squatters are a problem, but so are water line breaks, gas leaks, etc. Leaving a property abandoned long enough for someone to move into it is creating a hazard for the neighborhood in general.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        You should be able to leave your house for two weeks and not come home to it being taken over. You don't have to leave it abandoned long enough, just long enough to get unlucky. I've had a few attempted break ins already, usually when I'm home so I can discourage them by turning on a light or yelling out the window (the police don't care, so no help there). I had a van pull up to my house a couple of days ago with a ladder (lots of windows on second floors open now) that booked it when they realized I was home. I do live in a neighborhood with a large unhoused neighbor population, who are well aware of squatter rights and looking for opportunities, so its not just a "well-heeled" problem for us. Frankly, if you tolerate this kind of behavior against rich people, it is eventually going to effect you as well (they just get bolder and bolder).
        shadowgovt 3y ago
        > You should be able to leave your house for two weeks and not come home to it being taken over. I just can't agree that's fundamentally true, unless you have in-home monitoring set up. Swizzle that to "You should be able to leave your house for two weeks without a water main break flooding it" or "You should be able to leave your house for two weeks without a gas leak blowing it up." Real estate ownership implies obligation. It's one of the reasons so many people choose to just skip out on that entirely and rent their residence. > Frankly, if you tolerate this kind of behavior against rich people, it is eventually going to effect you as well Frankly, if I tolerate leaving people unhoused long enough and in large enough numbers that it effects me, it should effect me. Those are probably fellow citizens and fellow neighbors, and if not, they're still fellow human beings. Adequate housing is a human right as per the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Bye_Felicia 3y ago
[flagged]
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  It's not me; It's the law. What you've just described has resulted in the past in two life sentences with no possibility of parole. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Haile_Kifer_and_Nicholas_Brady https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Haile_Kifer_and_N...
  - Bye_Felicia 3y ago
    Trying to leave slavery is against the law, and those who helped slaves escape were imprisoned. Escaped slaves had bounties placed on their heads and were often captured and placed back with their owners. Fugitive slave laws https://infogalactic.com/info/Fugitive_slave_laws https://infogalactic.com/info/Fugitive_slave_laws Now do you see how preposterous your point is? It's important not to live in a far left shithole state, where property rights are not taken seriously, and which do not have stand your ground laws. (also, your link has nothing to do with squatters, it has more to do with laws surrounding intruders. In Texas the homeowner would not have been charged.)

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

Many of us are worried just about going on vacation. Will I come home to an empty safe home after a two week trip abroad? Because it isn’t guaranteed anymore.

shadowgovt 3y ago
Is that an issue people are seeing regularly? This story does not indicate it is.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Yes, it is pretty common now (although, I guess it depends on your definition of common!): https://www.quora.com/I-just-arrived-home-from-a-beautiful-vacation-to-find-squatters-living-in-my-home-now-I-m-the-one-living-homeless-while-the-cops-and-legal-proceedings-handle-this-what-should-I-do-next https://www.quora.com/I-just-arrived-home-from-a-beautiful-v... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLegsj31Pp8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLegsj31Pp8 https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2023/07/03/squatters-rights-leave-homeowners-forgotten/70364321007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2023/07/03/squatters-... https://www.foxnews.com/us/maryland-resident-squatters-bedroom-belongings-sold https://www.foxnews.com/us/maryland-resident-squatters-bedro... It has happened in Seattle already, enough for me to be worried about it. Everyone should think about it before leaving on vacation, since it is a real thing that you need to protect yourself against. Even if you rent, someone could break in to your place, change the locks, and then have a scrawled out fraudulent lease document. You would eventually get your place back, but being homeless for 3-6 months sucks. This just isn't a rich house speculator problem (though they are more at risk, of course).
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    It still sounds like a "well-heeled enough to disappear for weeks" problem though. A person doing that should be making arrangements for their property to be checked up on regularly; squatters are a problem, but so are water line breaks, gas leaks, etc. Leaving a property abandoned long enough for someone to move into it is creating a hazard for the neighborhood in general.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      You should be able to leave your house for two weeks and not come home to it being taken over. You don't have to leave it abandoned long enough, just long enough to get unlucky. I've had a few attempted break ins already, usually when I'm home so I can discourage them by turning on a light or yelling out the window (the police don't care, so no help there). I had a van pull up to my house a couple of days ago with a ladder (lots of windows on second floors open now) that booked it when they realized I was home. I do live in a neighborhood with a large unhoused neighbor population, who are well aware of squatter rights and looking for opportunities, so its not just a "well-heeled" problem for us. Frankly, if you tolerate this kind of behavior against rich people, it is eventually going to effect you as well (they just get bolder and bolder).
      - shadowgovt 3y ago
        > You should be able to leave your house for two weeks and not come home to it being taken over. I just can't agree that's fundamentally true, unless you have in-home monitoring set up. Swizzle that to "You should be able to leave your house for two weeks without a water main break flooding it" or "You should be able to leave your house for two weeks without a gas leak blowing it up." Real estate ownership implies obligation. It's one of the reasons so many people choose to just skip out on that entirely and rent their residence. > Frankly, if you tolerate this kind of behavior against rich people, it is eventually going to effect you as well Frankly, if I tolerate leaving people unhoused long enough and in large enough numbers that it effects me, it should effect me. Those are probably fellow citizens and fellow neighbors, and if not, they're still fellow human beings. Adequate housing is a human right as per the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Bye_Felicia 3y ago

[flagged]

shadowgovt 3y ago
It's not me; It's the law. What you've just described has resulted in the past in two life sentences with no possibility of parole. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Haile_Kifer_and_Nicholas_Brady https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Haile_Kifer_and_N...
- Bye_Felicia 3y ago
  Trying to leave slavery is against the law, and those who helped slaves escape were imprisoned. Escaped slaves had bounties placed on their heads and were often captured and placed back with their owners. Fugitive slave laws https://infogalactic.com/info/Fugitive_slave_laws https://infogalactic.com/info/Fugitive_slave_laws Now do you see how preposterous your point is? It's important not to live in a far left shithole state, where property rights are not taken seriously, and which do not have stand your ground laws. (also, your link has nothing to do with squatters, it has more to do with laws surrounding intruders. In Texas the homeowner would not have been charged.)