9 ms·

Here's the context: the fr gov's been acting against national interest for more than 20 years in a row. The people know it. The gov knows the people know. The g

Here's the context: the fr gov's been acting against national interest for more than 20 years in a row. The people know it. The gov knows the people know. The gov wants to pretend it's not doing anything wrong. It could keep pretending credibly, if only people would keep their trap shut on the web. So now gov wants to control what people can see and say on the web.

polotics 3y ago
This is extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence! This looks more like a whack-a-mole "for the children" misguided initiative, not a great firewall of China... Do you have more context?
- deleted 3y ago
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- isaacremuant 3y ago
  Government power grabs are the norm. You'd need extraordinary evidence to prove otherwise. Of course, authortiarians will always pretend there's some mistake or some good intention, once they're exposed, and attack people with labels, when criticism is used against their policies. Comparing stuff to the great firewall of china is ridiculous. It's like saying things are ok with police in the US because they're not north Korea.
gattilorenz 3y ago
> "The people know it." Why do I have strong vibes that a better way of phrasing this is "a percentage of the people who thinks the fr gov's been acting against national interest (likely the people who think /their/ interest aligns with the national interest quite closely) knows it." I mean, I don't know France and I'm no friend with "the government" and I oppose turning browsers into anything they are not supposed to be, but that "the government" can go against "national interest" for 20 year and "the people" know it is such a trite story that... uuuuugh. In short, you added no context at all.
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- tasogare 3y ago
  > I don't know France Then don't try to put discredit to the saying of an insider. GP is 100% right. I've been back after about ~5 years living abroad and the country is in an astonishing decline on every plan (educational, moral, economical, political, diplomatic, security, judicial, medical, etc. the list goes one). And most of it is stemming from the policies enforced in the last decades.
  - junaru 3y ago
    > Then don't try to put discredit to the saying of an insider. The GP in question is a generic ramble about distaste for current government. You can apply that for each and every country - there's not one where citizens are happy with their leaders. And if this flies for 'insider knowledge' in France you really are f**d and, its not because of the government.
    - ElFitz 3y ago
      > The GP in question is a generic ramble about distaste for current government. For the last 4 presidents and their ~15 governments (20 years), both "left" and "right". But I agree said rambling remains quite generic nonetheless.
      - petre 3y ago
        The current président de la République managed to trigger protests and strikes that are only rivaled by the '86/87 student riots. The yellow vest protest almost had the potential to turn into another May '68 style event. It almost always begins with police killing a French citizen of Algerian origin or by messing up with the fuel prices. Hollande was a total disaster and Sarkozy is a 2x convict by now, no need to say more.
        ElFitz 3y ago
benterix 3y ago
You wrote 6 sentences and I still have no idea what it's all about.
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gpvos 3y ago
You need to give some serious references for that.
- 6r17 3y ago
  hi, our nuclear park is jeopardized, our energy cost is above the roof, several scandals ; look up the macron leaks it's has widely made the news both in france and internationally.
  - ElFitz 3y ago
    Or Chirac and Balladur's 1995 presidential campaign accounts. The only recently released the Constitutional Council’s archives, 25 years later, and it’s been quite enlightening. Our Supreme Court "equivalent" basically approved, enabled, contributed to and hid away blatant fraud, then lied about it for years, all under the guise of avoiding "political consequences". https://www.francetvinfo.fr/politique/affaire/affaire-karachi/enquete-franceinfo-presidentielle-1995-comment-le-conseil-constitutionnel-a-valide-les-comptes-de-campagne-irreguliers-de-chirac-et-balladur_4148081.html https://www.francetvinfo.fr/politique/affaire/affaire-karach...
- conradfr 3y ago
  Here's one: Macron, Alstom, General Electric.
Zetice 3y ago
Could you try to explain it again, without the editorializing? Just a straight, facts only version of events, please. Don’t worry, we’ll be upset, we love getting upset, but we have to feel like we figured it out. Americans just prefer to bring our outrage from home, rather than have it supplied for us when we get there.

polotics 3y ago

This is extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence! This looks more like a whack-a-mole "for the children" misguided initiative, not a great firewall of China... Do you have more context?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
isaacremuant 3y ago
Government power grabs are the norm. You'd need extraordinary evidence to prove otherwise. Of course, authortiarians will always pretend there's some mistake or some good intention, once they're exposed, and attack people with labels, when criticism is used against their policies. Comparing stuff to the great firewall of china is ridiculous. It's like saying things are ok with police in the US because they're not north Korea.

gattilorenz 3y ago

> "The people know it." Why do I have strong vibes that a better way of phrasing this is "a percentage of the people who thinks the fr gov's been acting against national interest (likely the people who think /their/ interest aligns with the national interest quite closely) knows it." I mean, I don't know France and I'm no friend with "the government" and I oppose turning browsers into anything they are not supposed to be, but that "the government" can go against "national interest" for 20 year and "the people" know it is such a trite story that... uuuuugh. In short, you added no context at all.

deleted 3y ago
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tasogare 3y ago
> I don't know France Then don't try to put discredit to the saying of an insider. GP is 100% right. I've been back after about ~5 years living abroad and the country is in an astonishing decline on every plan (educational, moral, economical, political, diplomatic, security, judicial, medical, etc. the list goes one). And most of it is stemming from the policies enforced in the last decades.
- junaru 3y ago
  > Then don't try to put discredit to the saying of an insider. The GP in question is a generic ramble about distaste for current government. You can apply that for each and every country - there's not one where citizens are happy with their leaders. And if this flies for 'insider knowledge' in France you really are f**d and, its not because of the government.
  - ElFitz 3y ago
    > The GP in question is a generic ramble about distaste for current government. For the last 4 presidents and their ~15 governments (20 years), both "left" and "right". But I agree said rambling remains quite generic nonetheless.
    - petre 3y ago
      The current président de la République managed to trigger protests and strikes that are only rivaled by the '86/87 student riots. The yellow vest protest almost had the potential to turn into another May '68 style event. It almost always begins with police killing a French citizen of Algerian origin or by messing up with the fuel prices. Hollande was a total disaster and Sarkozy is a 2x convict by now, no need to say more.
      - ElFitz 3y ago

benterix 3y ago

You wrote 6 sentences and I still have no idea what it's all about.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

gpvos 3y ago

You need to give some serious references for that.

6r17 3y ago
hi, our nuclear park is jeopardized, our energy cost is above the roof, several scandals ; look up the macron leaks it's has widely made the news both in france and internationally.
- ElFitz 3y ago
  Or Chirac and Balladur's 1995 presidential campaign accounts. The only recently released the Constitutional Council’s archives, 25 years later, and it’s been quite enlightening. Our Supreme Court "equivalent" basically approved, enabled, contributed to and hid away blatant fraud, then lied about it for years, all under the guise of avoiding "political consequences". https://www.francetvinfo.fr/politique/affaire/affaire-karachi/enquete-franceinfo-presidentielle-1995-comment-le-conseil-constitutionnel-a-valide-les-comptes-de-campagne-irreguliers-de-chirac-et-balladur_4148081.html https://www.francetvinfo.fr/politique/affaire/affaire-karach...
conradfr 3y ago
Here's one: Macron, Alstom, General Electric.

Zetice 3y ago

Could you try to explain it again, without the editorializing? Just a straight, facts only version of events, please. Don’t worry, we’ll be upset, we love getting upset, but we have to feel like we figured it out. Americans just prefer to bring our outrage from home, rather than have it supplied for us when we get there.