3 ms·

Be careful what you wish for. The existence of places like Los Angeles, itself, effectively exist because of these same water rights. Why do you think LA is al

by scoofy 3y ago

Be careful what you wish for. The existence of places like Los Angeles, itself, effectively exist because of these same water rights. Why do you think LA is allowed to just pump an entire major river all the way from near Mammoth Lakes to the coast? Out of the goodness of the folks on the Owen's River's hearts? Fuck no. Los Angeles lied, cheated, and stole to get those water rights, and if you think Los Angeles isn't going to have to pay through the nose if we reset water rights, you're sorely mistaken. You look at the history of water in the American West, and you'll see that everyone has done everything wrong since the 1920's, when water rights were designed to prevent migration west. Then you'll understand why this mess is much, much bigger than we can imagine.

joshjob42 3y ago
I'm sorry but the 10M people of Los Angeles County with 3.5% of the GDP of the United States which if a country would put it between Poland and Switzerland would, on an open market for water, absolutely crush the ~100x fewer people who live around Mammoth Lakes, Owen's River, etc. We import ~800k (in 2018 it as ~750k, latest number I found) acre-feet of water a year to LA County via MWD, or 0.08 per person per year, or ~100m^3 per person. That's used to generate ~$72k of economic activity. Alfalfa for instance uses ~0.4acre-feet per ton. Alfalfa prices haven't ever been higher than $300/ton. That means that if water cost more than $750/acre-foot, they'd be out of business on water cost alone. At that price, the average Angeleno would have to pay a shockingly high... $5/mo for all their water. Oh wait, no, that's less than 0.1% of GDP per capita in Los Angeles County. The fact is urban dwellers don't use much water, and are enormously economically productive, much moreso than rural areas, and so in any kind of open market for water, the urbanites will win handily every time. The city will get it's water, no matter what, and the fairly economically unproductive areas will have to adapt. It's only through political interventions like silly "water rights" designed for the benefit of farmers that a city has to resort to more expensive sources. https://ourcountyla.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Our-County-Water-Briefing_For-Web.pdf https://ourcountyla.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/... https://archive.is/7BNdF https://archive.is/7BNdF https://hayandforage.com/article-4472-Another-drop-for-hay-prices-in-June.html https://hayandforage.com/article-4472-Another-drop-for-hay-p...
- scoofy 3y ago
  I agree with you when we’re talking about alfalfa, but what you’re suggesting would probably destroy entire regions that wouldn’t be able to compete for water on economic terms. It’s exactly what happened in the Owen’s valley last century.

by scoofy 3y ago

joshjob42 3y ago

I'm sorry but the 10M people of Los Angeles County with 3.5% of the GDP of the United States which if a country would put it between Poland and Switzerland would, on an open market for water, absolutely crush the ~100x fewer people who live around Mammoth Lakes, Owen's River, etc. We import ~800k (in 2018 it as ~750k, latest number I found) acre-feet of water a year to LA County via MWD, or 0.08 per person per year, or ~100m^3 per person. That's used to generate ~$72k of economic activity. Alfalfa for instance uses ~0.4acre-feet per ton. Alfalfa prices haven't ever been higher than $300/ton. That means that if water cost more than $750/acre-foot, they'd be out of business on water cost alone. At that price, the average Angeleno would have to pay a shockingly high... $5/mo for all their water. Oh wait, no, that's less than 0.1% of GDP per capita in Los Angeles County. The fact is urban dwellers don't use much water, and are enormously economically productive, much moreso than rural areas, and so in any kind of open market for water, the urbanites will win handily every time. The city will get it's water, no matter what, and the fairly economically unproductive areas will have to adapt. It's only through political interventions like silly "water rights" designed for the benefit of farmers that a city has to resort to more expensive sources. https://ourcountyla.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Our-County-Water-Briefing_For-Web.pdf https://ourcountyla.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/... https://archive.is/7BNdF https://archive.is/7BNdF https://hayandforage.com/article-4472-Another-drop-for-hay-prices-in-June.html https://hayandforage.com/article-4472-Another-drop-for-hay-p...

scoofy 3y ago
I agree with you when we’re talking about alfalfa, but what you’re suggesting would probably destroy entire regions that wouldn’t be able to compete for water on economic terms. It’s exactly what happened in the Owen’s valley last century.