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I had a Hybrid Audi Q5 and one day it just stopped working. The dealership quoted me $25,000 for a new battery, plus labour, plus they said I had to manage the

by jmacd 3y ago

I had a Hybrid Audi Q5 and one day it just stopped working. The dealership quoted me $25,000 for a new battery, plus labour, plus they said I had to manage the recycling of the old battery. They estimated that at $6,000. My head was spinning. Eventually through a few Facebook groups I was able to find a battery technician. He happily opened up the battery, checked the cells, found the failed cells, repaired them and then had to do some work on the vehicle diagnostics to get it to forget there was ever a problem. Voila, it was working just fine. Took him 90 minutes.

arielweisberg 3y ago
Chris Fix has a video showing how to replace all the cells on a Prius battery. It's not the hardest DIY thing I have seen by a large margin. I recall seeing a single cell replacement video a while back as well, but don't remember where. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHaYXBFnJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHaYXBFnJo We need more right to repair and requirement to make things repairable regulations. The balance is in the wrong spot right now.
- 0ct4via 3y ago
  Agreed - unfortunately so much is going into proprietary systems and DRMing control units (and even spare parts), which really needs to change. There is some progress being made, like https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64206913 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64206913 - but absolutely, legislating RtR is the way to go.
  - peterleiser 3y ago
    Imagine a post-apocalyptic world with fully functional technology that surviving humans are hopelessly locked out from using. The Master-Blaster rulers will be the ones who are, or who control, the hackers.
- 1-6 3y ago
  Right to repair is already possible on Prii's. The question is, is it possible on Teslas.
  - inhumantsar 3y ago
    It is possible on Teslas (despite their best efforts). Check out some of the older Rich Rebuilds videos on YouTube.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      Isn't it much more dangerous to work on these batteries? 400V or 800V at those amperages can easily be fatal even through a pair of rubber gloves.
      - dharmab 3y ago
        If you follow the appropriate procedures it is no more dangerous than working on an ICE car. There are safety fuses you pull to disarm the system.
      - foxyv 3y ago
        About the same level of danger as working on your own brakes.
- LanceH 3y ago
  Chris Fix's videos are a wonderful. High signal to noise with a very pleasant presentation. They are mostly car repair, maintenance, and modification. No real theme, just whatever he happens to be doing and find interesting. My 11 year old has watched his oil change video at least a hundred times. We opened the hood on my truck and he was able to find various parts that Chris had mentioned in his videos. My older two (driving age) have no clue.
yomlica8 3y ago
Clearly there is a need for better battery DRM if unauthorized repair technicians are able to work on these components!
1-6 3y ago
How much was the fix?
- jmacd 3y ago
  A couple hundred $
user3939382 3y ago
Internal combustion engines are complex but, to fix them, we have a century of knowledge and a mature ecosystem: parts distributors, aftermarket, shops, amateur mechanics, books, courses, you name it. I'm very hesitant to buy a hybrid that's so complex only highly specialized mechanics can repair them (specially certified mechanics at the dealership) and the repair ecosystem is 1% the size. If it wasn't unsafe I'd prefer a Willys jeep that I can fix myself with chewing gum.
- hulitu 3y ago
  The main issue is that car mechanics can only repair mechanical parts. Everything electric is above them.
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  Car shops have nearly as much existing knowledge repairing electronics. Most of what they need isn't "highly specialized" so much as "differently specialized". The biggest problem right now is that the training/retraining costs on those different specializations aren't current always economically worth it because overall EVs have fewer parts and need fewer maintenance cycles. That's likely going to be economic factors that will keep the repair ecosystem smaller in the long term, too. Not because the knowledge is "tougher" and "more certified" (existing work had certifications, too, just different ones), but because it is overall going to involve fewer supply chain "partners" and fewer, less frequent customers.
  - user3939382 3y ago
    Your comment is valid for EVs but I’m commenting specifically on hybrids. The complexity I’m worried about comes from having both systems in the car.
    - WorldMaker 3y ago
      Fair enough. I think this is why hybrids are an evolutionary dead end in cars. GM said the era of the hybrid was already over when they discontinued the Volt in 2019, and I agree with that sentiment. They were a transition technology for a transition that is mostly already past and 2019 is a good enough death date for it to me. (I still drive a 2012 Volt myself, so I lived the transition. I would not recommend to anyone buying in 2023 a hybrid, and I expect my Volt may move on to a second owner for some time, but I would recommend an EV first to anyone that isn't the potential buyer for my car when it is time to sell.)
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Sounds like there's good scratch to be made as a battery technician; one could set up a shop and offer services to all the local garages too, which will be facing this problem. Of course, they'd rather take the 25K, or take in the car for scrap / resale themselves.
MerelyMortal 3y ago
Check your state law on battery recycling. In some (most?) states, places that sell batteries have to also accept batteries (the law might say something about the cost).
sebazzz 3y ago
> Voila, it was working just fine. Took him 90 minutes Either the dealership is (1) incompetent, (2) this is a profit model (they quickly refusbish the old battery and resell it), or (3) it is a liability issue.

by jmacd 3y ago

arielweisberg 3y ago

Chris Fix has a video showing how to replace all the cells on a Prius battery. It's not the hardest DIY thing I have seen by a large margin. I recall seeing a single cell replacement video a while back as well, but don't remember where. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHaYXBFnJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHaYXBFnJo We need more right to repair and requirement to make things repairable regulations. The balance is in the wrong spot right now.

0ct4via 3y ago
Agreed - unfortunately so much is going into proprietary systems and DRMing control units (and even spare parts), which really needs to change. There is some progress being made, like https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64206913 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64206913 - but absolutely, legislating RtR is the way to go.
- peterleiser 3y ago
  Imagine a post-apocalyptic world with fully functional technology that surviving humans are hopelessly locked out from using. The Master-Blaster rulers will be the ones who are, or who control, the hackers.
1-6 3y ago
Right to repair is already possible on Prii's. The question is, is it possible on Teslas.
- inhumantsar 3y ago
  It is possible on Teslas (despite their best efforts). Check out some of the older Rich Rebuilds videos on YouTube.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Isn't it much more dangerous to work on these batteries? 400V or 800V at those amperages can easily be fatal even through a pair of rubber gloves.
    - dharmab 3y ago
      If you follow the appropriate procedures it is no more dangerous than working on an ICE car. There are safety fuses you pull to disarm the system.
    - foxyv 3y ago
      About the same level of danger as working on your own brakes.
LanceH 3y ago
Chris Fix's videos are a wonderful. High signal to noise with a very pleasant presentation. They are mostly car repair, maintenance, and modification. No real theme, just whatever he happens to be doing and find interesting. My 11 year old has watched his oil change video at least a hundred times. We opened the hood on my truck and he was able to find various parts that Chris had mentioned in his videos. My older two (driving age) have no clue.

yomlica8 3y ago

Clearly there is a need for better battery DRM if unauthorized repair technicians are able to work on these components!

1-6 3y ago

How much was the fix?

jmacd 3y ago
A couple hundred $

user3939382 3y ago

Internal combustion engines are complex but, to fix them, we have a century of knowledge and a mature ecosystem: parts distributors, aftermarket, shops, amateur mechanics, books, courses, you name it. I'm very hesitant to buy a hybrid that's so complex only highly specialized mechanics can repair them (specially certified mechanics at the dealership) and the repair ecosystem is 1% the size. If it wasn't unsafe I'd prefer a Willys jeep that I can fix myself with chewing gum.

hulitu 3y ago
The main issue is that car mechanics can only repair mechanical parts. Everything electric is above them.
WorldMaker 3y ago
Car shops have nearly as much existing knowledge repairing electronics. Most of what they need isn't "highly specialized" so much as "differently specialized". The biggest problem right now is that the training/retraining costs on those different specializations aren't current always economically worth it because overall EVs have fewer parts and need fewer maintenance cycles. That's likely going to be economic factors that will keep the repair ecosystem smaller in the long term, too. Not because the knowledge is "tougher" and "more certified" (existing work had certifications, too, just different ones), but because it is overall going to involve fewer supply chain "partners" and fewer, less frequent customers.
- user3939382 3y ago
  Your comment is valid for EVs but I’m commenting specifically on hybrids. The complexity I’m worried about comes from having both systems in the car.
  - WorldMaker 3y ago
    Fair enough. I think this is why hybrids are an evolutionary dead end in cars. GM said the era of the hybrid was already over when they discontinued the Volt in 2019, and I agree with that sentiment. They were a transition technology for a transition that is mostly already past and 2019 is a good enough death date for it to me. (I still drive a 2012 Volt myself, so I lived the transition. I would not recommend to anyone buying in 2023 a hybrid, and I expect my Volt may move on to a second owner for some time, but I would recommend an EV first to anyone that isn't the potential buyer for my car when it is time to sell.)

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

Sounds like there's good scratch to be made as a battery technician; one could set up a shop and offer services to all the local garages too, which will be facing this problem. Of course, they'd rather take the 25K, or take in the car for scrap / resale themselves.

MerelyMortal 3y ago

Check your state law on battery recycling. In some (most?) states, places that sell batteries have to also accept batteries (the law might say something about the cost).

sebazzz 3y ago

> Voila, it was working just fine. Took him 90 minutes Either the dealership is (1) incompetent, (2) this is a profit model (they quickly refusbish the old battery and resell it), or (3) it is a liability issue.