5 ms·

I hate that loading screen mini games was patented for many years. It’s a cultural theft orchestrated by govt like a crime racket, not an investment into innova

I hate that loading screen mini games was patented for many years. It’s a cultural theft orchestrated by govt like a crime racket, not an investment into innovation

bitwize 3y ago
That patent has expired.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- teddyh 3y ago
  It was also an obviously invalid patent, as prior art existed from 1988: <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fast_loader&oldid=1167423908#Cassette_tapes https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fast_loader&oldid...>
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    Anyone can think of it and invent it independently, but you’d have been put in a cage if you acted on your original thought because someone else paid the protection money earlier
    - voxic11 3y ago
      You won't be put in a cage if you violate a patent. There are no criminal penalties for patent violations.
      - wahnfrieden 3y ago
        The threat is there if you don’t pay the damages. It all comes back to cages. Without the cage there is no damages payment, without the threat of damages payment there is no patent.
        voxic11 3y ago
        Do you actually know of a case where someone went to jail because they failed to pay damages in a patent case? I don't think that is how it works. If you don't pay what you owe then the court will order your wages garnished and your property confiscated. And I guess if you intentionally interfere with either of those things you could end up in jail for violating a court order.
        gabereiser 3y ago
        It’s that last bit that’s the kicker. IANAL, but if you blatantly refuse a court order, they can put you in a cage.
      - justinclift 3y ago
        > There are no criminal penalties for patent violations. You might be made permanently destitute and homeless however.
  - bitwize 3y ago
    You'd have to prove it in court, which means you'd have to outspend Namco Bandai on lawyers. Water under the bridge now, but still.
    - ekianjo 3y ago
      Proving prior art is often should be as simple as presenting an obvious proof and have the patent invalidated in the same day as long as the records are not debatable.
      - kmeisthax 3y ago
        What you're talking about almost exists, it's called an inter partes review[0]. The problem is, the records are almost always debatable. The legal system affords scoundrels plenty of opportunities to file paperwork. As it stands, IPR works enough that patent trolls are angry that it's too easy to get junk patents thrown out. But it still requires you to know in advance what to fight, to spend money on lawyers fighting it, and to delay actually using the invention you think isn't patented until the patent is actually thrown out. Some developer who independently invents loading screen mini-games probably isn't going to even know about the loading screen games patent until either legal tells them to remove the mini-game or they launch and get sued by Namco. An example of this: do you remember VRML chatrooms? Worlds, Inc was one of them, and they got US8082501B2[1], a patent on having a character in a multiplayer virtual world. They sued Activision[2] over the span of nine years, while also hitting up other game developers for money, including Microsoft[3]. Microsoft actually tried filing an IPR case[4], but the courts acted first to invalidate the patent before the IPR could go through[5]. [0] https://www.uspto.gov/patents/ptab/trials/inter-partes-review https://www.uspto.gov/patents/ptab/trials/inter-partes-revie... [1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US8082501B2 https://patents.google.com/patent/US8082501B2 [2] https://www.gamesindustry.biz/activision-blizzard-sued-for-patent-infringement-of-virtual-worlds-usage https://www.gamesindustry.biz/activision-blizzard-sued-for-p... [3] https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/litigation/Texas%20Western%20District%20Court/case/6:20-cv-00872 https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/litigation/Texas%20Western... [4] https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/ptab/case/IPR2021-00277 https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/ptab/case/IPR2021-00277 [5] https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/ptab-filings%2FIPR2021-00277%2F20 https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/ptab-filings%2FIPR2021-00...
  - vvanders 3y ago
    Still didn't prevent us from taking a wide berth around the idea when I was working on my first title in the industry. The studio was aware of the patent and wasn't willing to take on any risk.
  - adrr 3y ago
    It’s only invalid if you the have the cash to fight an expensive court battle.
marcellus23 3y ago
That patent expired a couple years ago IIRC, but I still haven't been seeing any loading minigames. Are games starting to do them yet?
- WXLCKNO 3y ago
  Are loading times still a thing with new consoles? I don't own last gen consoles but I remember them making a big fuss about it.
- UnlockedSecrets 3y ago
  It makes alot less sense now with SSD's being as fast as they are largely llimiting how long a loading screen will be.
  - robotnikman 3y ago
    It's funny when you play older games with things on the loading screen you only see them for a split second nowadays. I played Bayonetta for the first time a few months ago on my steam deck, and during loading times you were able to practice combos and stuff. Unfortunately it only lasted for a split second since it loads so fast from the SSD, I'm guessing it's original release on console disc allowed players a bit more time to try it while it was loading from the disc.
    - boastful_inaba 3y ago
      You can still hit a button to stop the loading from finishing, IIRC, and then just hang around on the combo practice screen as long as you like.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  It doesn’t matter anymore
- lukas099 3y ago
  If you can consider it a minigame, when you are skydiving down into the depths and the music and atmosphere changes in TOTK... that's a loading screen.

I hate that loading screen mini games was patented for many years. It’s a cultural theft orchestrated by govt like a crime racket, not an investment into innovation

bitwize 3y ago

That patent has expired.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
teddyh 3y ago
It was also an obviously invalid patent, as prior art existed from 1988: <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fast_loader&oldid=1167423908#Cassette_tapes https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fast_loader&oldid...>
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  Anyone can think of it and invent it independently, but you’d have been put in a cage if you acted on your original thought because someone else paid the protection money earlier
  - voxic11 3y ago
    You won't be put in a cage if you violate a patent. There are no criminal penalties for patent violations.
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      The threat is there if you don’t pay the damages. It all comes back to cages. Without the cage there is no damages payment, without the threat of damages payment there is no patent.
      - voxic11 3y ago
        Do you actually know of a case where someone went to jail because they failed to pay damages in a patent case? I don't think that is how it works. If you don't pay what you owe then the court will order your wages garnished and your property confiscated. And I guess if you intentionally interfere with either of those things you could end up in jail for violating a court order.
        gabereiser 3y ago
        It’s that last bit that’s the kicker. IANAL, but if you blatantly refuse a court order, they can put you in a cage.
    - justinclift 3y ago
      > There are no criminal penalties for patent violations. You might be made permanently destitute and homeless however.
- bitwize 3y ago
  You'd have to prove it in court, which means you'd have to outspend Namco Bandai on lawyers. Water under the bridge now, but still.
  - ekianjo 3y ago
    Proving prior art is often should be as simple as presenting an obvious proof and have the patent invalidated in the same day as long as the records are not debatable.
    - kmeisthax 3y ago
      What you're talking about almost exists, it's called an inter partes review[0]. The problem is, the records are almost always debatable. The legal system affords scoundrels plenty of opportunities to file paperwork. As it stands, IPR works enough that patent trolls are angry that it's too easy to get junk patents thrown out. But it still requires you to know in advance what to fight, to spend money on lawyers fighting it, and to delay actually using the invention you think isn't patented until the patent is actually thrown out. Some developer who independently invents loading screen mini-games probably isn't going to even know about the loading screen games patent until either legal tells them to remove the mini-game or they launch and get sued by Namco. An example of this: do you remember VRML chatrooms? Worlds, Inc was one of them, and they got US8082501B2[1], a patent on having a character in a multiplayer virtual world. They sued Activision[2] over the span of nine years, while also hitting up other game developers for money, including Microsoft[3]. Microsoft actually tried filing an IPR case[4], but the courts acted first to invalidate the patent before the IPR could go through[5]. [0] https://www.uspto.gov/patents/ptab/trials/inter-partes-review https://www.uspto.gov/patents/ptab/trials/inter-partes-revie... [1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US8082501B2 https://patents.google.com/patent/US8082501B2 [2] https://www.gamesindustry.biz/activision-blizzard-sued-for-patent-infringement-of-virtual-worlds-usage https://www.gamesindustry.biz/activision-blizzard-sued-for-p... [3] https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/litigation/Texas%20Western%20District%20Court/case/6:20-cv-00872 https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/litigation/Texas%20Western... [4] https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/ptab/case/IPR2021-00277 https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/ptab/case/IPR2021-00277 [5] https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/ptab-filings%2FIPR2021-00277%2F20 https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/ptab-filings%2FIPR2021-00...
- vvanders 3y ago
  Still didn't prevent us from taking a wide berth around the idea when I was working on my first title in the industry. The studio was aware of the patent and wasn't willing to take on any risk.
- adrr 3y ago
  It’s only invalid if you the have the cash to fight an expensive court battle.

marcellus23 3y ago

That patent expired a couple years ago IIRC, but I still haven't been seeing any loading minigames. Are games starting to do them yet?

WXLCKNO 3y ago
Are loading times still a thing with new consoles? I don't own last gen consoles but I remember them making a big fuss about it.
UnlockedSecrets 3y ago
It makes alot less sense now with SSD's being as fast as they are largely llimiting how long a loading screen will be.
- robotnikman 3y ago
  It's funny when you play older games with things on the loading screen you only see them for a split second nowadays. I played Bayonetta for the first time a few months ago on my steam deck, and during loading times you were able to practice combos and stuff. Unfortunately it only lasted for a split second since it loads so fast from the SSD, I'm guessing it's original release on console disc allowed players a bit more time to try it while it was loading from the disc.
  - boastful_inaba 3y ago
    You can still hit a button to stop the loading from finishing, IIRC, and then just hang around on the combo practice screen as long as you like.
wahnfrieden 3y ago
It doesn’t matter anymore
lukas099 3y ago
If you can consider it a minigame, when you are skydiving down into the depths and the music and atmosphere changes in TOTK... that's a loading screen.