5 ms·

Related, from earlier this year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35584533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35584533 Wherein the author compares Yggdra

Related, from earlier this year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35584533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35584533 Wherein the author compares Yggdrasil, tinc, Tailscale, Zerotier, Netmaker, Nebula, and ends up prefering Yggdrasil. Actually, it was this comparison that made me look into Netmaker and prefer it and I've been running it without issue for experimentation. I hope the author revisits NM. I agree that the project is moving quickly, which results in having to stay on top of changes to your configuration with releases, but they're still on 0.xx releases so it's to be expected. Since Netmaker is just vanilla wireguard with some route coordination and STUN/TURN, it's reasonable for me to wrap my head around system. Docs are written for self-hosters. These are all good signs.

tetris11 3y ago
> route coordination After reading the readme on the Github, it's still not clear to me whether it proxies everything through its own servers or not
- geek_at 3y ago
  Not when using the selfhosted version https://www.netmaker.io/pricing https://www.netmaker.io/pricing
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
aborsy 3y ago
The use of relays is common when you connect to the VPN in the enterprise networks that often allow only outgoing 80/443. Also, you may not use the relays all the time, but you may use them sometimes throughout the day. If there is a vulnerability, one connection may be enough to compromise the security.
- afeiszli 3y ago
  Netmaker also has a relay setup, when you don't want to do P2P: https://www.netmaker.io/features/relay https://www.netmaker.io/features/relay
ignoramous 3y ago
> Docs are written for self-hosters. These are all good signs. Except at the time of writing, netmaker isn't FOSS: https://github.com/gravitl/netmaker/blob/16d5b5807/LICENSE.txt https://github.com/gravitl/netmaker/blob/16d5b5807/LICENSE.t...
- api 3y ago
  Liberal licenses are alive and well for libraries but for finished and polished products expect more of this. People are tired of being free labor for hustlers and billion dollar companies. “Thanks for all the work, we’ll take that and put it behind a paywall and monetize it for you and not give you anything.” People other than the author have a huge advantage when it comes to monetizing: they can focus only on that. The authors have to focus on creating while others can focus only on marketing.
  - progbits 3y ago
    NetMaker homepage says "backed by Ycombinator" so I doubt they are free labor. I sympathize to some degree, but true OSS is an important distinction for many and should be highlighted.
  - fmajid 3y ago
    I don't have much sympathy for that argument. AGPL (or dual-licensed AGPL + commercial) is the simple countermeasure for freeloaders. Most tech companies won't touch it with a 20-foot pole.
    - j1elo 3y ago
      Didn't seem to be such of a silver bullet for MongoDB, which used AGPL and still were forced to abandon it in favor of an even stronger version made by themselves (the SSPL, which is an AGPL on steroids). I'm not sure if there are more such cases, but clearly with this one, AGPL was not enough. I guess the issue is: if you have freeloaders, who are making all the money you would need to keep the OSS project alive, AGPL doesn't help you in any way. They are free to get the code as-is, run it, and serve their customers. Not sure why everybody suggests AGPL+Commercial as the perfect solution, it doesn't seem to solve anything for that case.
fer 3y ago
I'd add to that list Netbird, which is the one I ended up using after trying all of the above. https://netbird.io/ https://netbird.io/
- ttyprintk 3y ago
  From the Netbird ShowHN[0], people also mention OpenZiti: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34310561 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34310561 [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31551686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31551686
  - PLG88 3y ago
    fwiw, OpenZiti is permissively licensed under Apache2.0 as well. I work on the project.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

tetris11 3y ago

> route coordination After reading the readme on the Github, it's still not clear to me whether it proxies everything through its own servers or not

geek_at 3y ago
Not when using the selfhosted version https://www.netmaker.io/pricing https://www.netmaker.io/pricing
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

aborsy 3y ago

The use of relays is common when you connect to the VPN in the enterprise networks that often allow only outgoing 80/443. Also, you may not use the relays all the time, but you may use them sometimes throughout the day. If there is a vulnerability, one connection may be enough to compromise the security.

afeiszli 3y ago
Netmaker also has a relay setup, when you don't want to do P2P: https://www.netmaker.io/features/relay https://www.netmaker.io/features/relay

ignoramous 3y ago

> Docs are written for self-hosters. These are all good signs. Except at the time of writing, netmaker isn't FOSS: https://github.com/gravitl/netmaker/blob/16d5b5807/LICENSE.txt https://github.com/gravitl/netmaker/blob/16d5b5807/LICENSE.t...

api 3y ago
Liberal licenses are alive and well for libraries but for finished and polished products expect more of this. People are tired of being free labor for hustlers and billion dollar companies. “Thanks for all the work, we’ll take that and put it behind a paywall and monetize it for you and not give you anything.” People other than the author have a huge advantage when it comes to monetizing: they can focus only on that. The authors have to focus on creating while others can focus only on marketing.
- progbits 3y ago
  NetMaker homepage says "backed by Ycombinator" so I doubt they are free labor. I sympathize to some degree, but true OSS is an important distinction for many and should be highlighted.
- fmajid 3y ago
  I don't have much sympathy for that argument. AGPL (or dual-licensed AGPL + commercial) is the simple countermeasure for freeloaders. Most tech companies won't touch it with a 20-foot pole.
  - j1elo 3y ago
    Didn't seem to be such of a silver bullet for MongoDB, which used AGPL and still were forced to abandon it in favor of an even stronger version made by themselves (the SSPL, which is an AGPL on steroids). I'm not sure if there are more such cases, but clearly with this one, AGPL was not enough. I guess the issue is: if you have freeloaders, who are making all the money you would need to keep the OSS project alive, AGPL doesn't help you in any way. They are free to get the code as-is, run it, and serve their customers. Not sure why everybody suggests AGPL+Commercial as the perfect solution, it doesn't seem to solve anything for that case.

fer 3y ago

I'd add to that list Netbird, which is the one I ended up using after trying all of the above. https://netbird.io/ https://netbird.io/

ttyprintk 3y ago
From the Netbird ShowHN[0], people also mention OpenZiti: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34310561 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34310561 [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31551686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31551686
- PLG88 3y ago
  fwiw, OpenZiti is permissively licensed under Apache2.0 as well. I work on the project.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]