5 ms·

To expand upon this... the name is a problem. "How can one make a _modern_ version of the CSV file format, let alone a second?"

bombcar 3y ago
Something playing on CSV could work - CSVlad or CSViper or CSVi
- agar 3y ago
  CSVi is quite clever. It immediately conjures the idea that its an editor for CSVs. I assumed from the HN headline that Modern CSV version 2 was an iteration on some new CSV specification.
  - sdenton4 3y ago
    Spoiler: it's Parquet.
    - yencabulator 3y ago
      Parquet is great but I'd argue ndjson[1] is closer to "modern" CSV. That is, people who like to describe things as "modern" and "elegant" are likely to want JSON everywhere ;-) [1]: Newline-delimited JSON, http://ndjson.org/ http://ndjson.org/
  - another-dave 3y ago
    It is clever but I can imagine the comments the OP would've gotten if posting "CSVi" and it didn't use vi-like keyboard shortcuts!
  - jdmichal 3y ago
    CSVi is cute and clever in exactly the way you don't want to be. It loses the entire audience of people who are Excel jockeys working with CSV files and maybe frustrated with the experience. Software engineers and system admins know what vi is. The rest of the world doesn't.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      The worse is the people who do know what vi is, and assume that it's a vi plugin or worse, an editor using vi bindings, and ignore it.
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    You know that was my first though as well (new CSV version), but then I thought that a new version wouldn't make sense since (1) there is already a specification (the RFC), and (2) those who don't care about the current RFC won't care about a new spec, either. CSV is one of those things that are everywhere because it is “obvious”. Then we have to deal with 100 interpretations of “obvious” decades later, since not enough people care about standardization.
- __del__ 3y ago
  i agree with the nibling comment that this name works precisely because it provokes curiosity about its relevance. i can't be the only dev who saw this headline and wondered whether some entity was pushing for a csv standardization (e.g. guarantees about encoding, escaping, etc.)
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  No no no, not CSVi, but CSVmacs!!! ;)
evanem 3y ago
The name only refers to the app's features and appearance. Well before I started development, I was looking for a CSV editor for my own use and everything I tried had a 90s look and feel. I figured just because the format is ancient doesn't mean the applications for it should be.
- simondotau 3y ago
  I think it’s a great name. Keep it. Even if it confuses some people at first, it’s the sort of confusion which will inspire many people — especially those who deal with text files all day and get pedantic about this stuff — to satisfy their incredulity and thus be exposed to your program. This is perfect for a tool which most people, including those who would derive the most benefit from it, won’t even hypothesise the existence of.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    >it’s the sort of confusion which will inspire many people ...to skip it, because while they could use a CSV file editor, they don't care to read about yet another "modern CSV" format. Confusion can only inspire if potential users pass from hearing about this, to the next level (of checking what it is about). I, for one, almost didn't click the HN submission because of this reason.
  - pbhjpbhj 3y ago
    This type of marketing by deception is absolute anathema to me. People will "dig deeper" because you tricked then into thinking what you've made of something else, something that person knows they want. Bleurgh. Yes, that's consistent with modern marketing: make people get your product even if they don't want it and/or don't need it. But, really, are you so desperate. You might save a 1000 hours by making it clear what the subject is; choosing to waste others time [which I'm not at all claiming the OP has done] is contemptible.
    - evanem 3y ago
      Definitely not my intent.
bee_rider 3y ago
I don’t really see the problem. Of course, CSV is more of a vague description of a family of pseudo-standards, rather than an actual standard. But Modern CSV seems like a fine name for an actual standard that takes inspiration from them.
- coldtea 3y ago
  That's exactly the problem. This isn't about a name "for an actual standard that takes inspiration from them" but for a CSV editing software.
shmoe 3y ago
That sort of thing usually breeds curiosity and leads someone to dig in deeper about the product though.
cxr 3y ago
> How can one make a _modern_ version of the CSV file format Check out WebCSV*: <http://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-data-primer/ http://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-data-primer/> * I'm aware that "WebCSV" isn't the real name, but it should be.

bombcar 3y ago

Something playing on CSV could work - CSVlad or CSViper or CSVi

agar 3y ago
CSVi is quite clever. It immediately conjures the idea that its an editor for CSVs. I assumed from the HN headline that Modern CSV version 2 was an iteration on some new CSV specification.
- sdenton4 3y ago
  Spoiler: it's Parquet.
  - yencabulator 3y ago
    Parquet is great but I'd argue ndjson[1] is closer to "modern" CSV. That is, people who like to describe things as "modern" and "elegant" are likely to want JSON everywhere ;-) [1]: Newline-delimited JSON, http://ndjson.org/ http://ndjson.org/
- another-dave 3y ago
  It is clever but I can imagine the comments the OP would've gotten if posting "CSVi" and it didn't use vi-like keyboard shortcuts!
- jdmichal 3y ago
  CSVi is cute and clever in exactly the way you don't want to be. It loses the entire audience of people who are Excel jockeys working with CSV files and maybe frustrated with the experience. Software engineers and system admins know what vi is. The rest of the world doesn't.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    The worse is the people who do know what vi is, and assume that it's a vi plugin or worse, an editor using vi bindings, and ignore it.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  You know that was my first though as well (new CSV version), but then I thought that a new version wouldn't make sense since (1) there is already a specification (the RFC), and (2) those who don't care about the current RFC won't care about a new spec, either. CSV is one of those things that are everywhere because it is “obvious”. Then we have to deal with 100 interpretations of “obvious” decades later, since not enough people care about standardization.
__del__ 3y ago
i agree with the nibling comment that this name works precisely because it provokes curiosity about its relevance. i can't be the only dev who saw this headline and wondered whether some entity was pushing for a csv standardization (e.g. guarantees about encoding, escaping, etc.)
DonHopkins 3y ago
No no no, not CSVi, but CSVmacs!!! ;)

evanem 3y ago

The name only refers to the app's features and appearance. Well before I started development, I was looking for a CSV editor for my own use and everything I tried had a 90s look and feel. I figured just because the format is ancient doesn't mean the applications for it should be.

simondotau 3y ago
I think it’s a great name. Keep it. Even if it confuses some people at first, it’s the sort of confusion which will inspire many people — especially those who deal with text files all day and get pedantic about this stuff — to satisfy their incredulity and thus be exposed to your program. This is perfect for a tool which most people, including those who would derive the most benefit from it, won’t even hypothesise the existence of.
- coldtea 3y ago
  >it’s the sort of confusion which will inspire many people ...to skip it, because while they could use a CSV file editor, they don't care to read about yet another "modern CSV" format. Confusion can only inspire if potential users pass from hearing about this, to the next level (of checking what it is about). I, for one, almost didn't click the HN submission because of this reason.
- pbhjpbhj 3y ago
  This type of marketing by deception is absolute anathema to me. People will "dig deeper" because you tricked then into thinking what you've made of something else, something that person knows they want. Bleurgh. Yes, that's consistent with modern marketing: make people get your product even if they don't want it and/or don't need it. But, really, are you so desperate. You might save a 1000 hours by making it clear what the subject is; choosing to waste others time [which I'm not at all claiming the OP has done] is contemptible.
  - evanem 3y ago
    Definitely not my intent.

bee_rider 3y ago

I don’t really see the problem. Of course, CSV is more of a vague description of a family of pseudo-standards, rather than an actual standard. But Modern CSV seems like a fine name for an actual standard that takes inspiration from them.

coldtea 3y ago
That's exactly the problem. This isn't about a name "for an actual standard that takes inspiration from them" but for a CSV editing software.

shmoe 3y ago

That sort of thing usually breeds curiosity and leads someone to dig in deeper about the product though.

cxr 3y ago

> How can one make a _modern_ version of the CSV file format Check out WebCSV*: <http://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-data-primer/ http://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-data-primer/> * I'm aware that "WebCSV" isn't the real name, but it should be.