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"Privacy friendly" Time was, if a neighbour insisted on daily filming a family entering and leaving their own home, they would have been given a smack in the m

"Privacy friendly" Time was, if a neighbour insisted on daily filming a family entering and leaving their own home, they would have been given a smack in the mouth for being a nosy bastard. Quite how recording your neighbours has become socially acceptable I will never understand.

NegativeK 3y ago
Due to the prevalence of porch pirates, people compromised. I refuse to have cloud connected cameras, but I understand why my neighbors have made the choices they have.
- shellfishgene 3y ago
  Clearly the porch pirate problem is best solved by the delivery people not leaving stuff on porches. This does not happen in other countries.
  - Null-Set 3y ago
    What do the delivery people do instead?
    - teddyh 3y ago
      You get an email, SMS (“text message” for non-Europeans), or a paper in your (physical) mailbox informing you that you have a package waiting at such-and-such a place (within walking distance if in a city), or there’s a reference to how you can choose your pickup spot from a handful of options.
      - nine_k 3y ago
        In a city, porch piracy is a non-issue if you live in an apartment building with a lobby. You can open the door to the lobby remotely. I wonder if a remotely openable porch-side "mail box" would find a market.
      - mminer237 3y ago
        That's an option in the US, but going to Walgreens to pick up every package is a much bigger hassle than just opening your door. In very high-crime areas, that's what people do (or get their own lockbox), but in most places in the US trying to prevent the crime is still more popular than trying to avoid it.
    - userabchn 3y ago
      Where I live you had to be home to receive packages. If you weren't, you had to go to a distribution centre to collect them. During the pandemic it seemed to change, so now they just leave them at your front door, and it hasn't gone back.
    - IshKebab 3y ago
      Leave it with a neighbour, attempt redelivery the next day, let you collect it from a delivery office, hide it in a less obvious safe place. Usually they give you the choice of what to do. Though having said that, I live in the UK and do occasionally just get parcels left on my very public doorstep. It's the exception though.
- dfee 3y ago
  Speaking of porch pirates, what are you going to do when a porch pirate strikes your house? Take down their license plate? Call the police? I'm cynical, but I imagine it goes like this: "Hello, this is 911, how can we help you?" "I'd like to report a 39.99 board game stolen off my porch, license plate ZXX-1234" "Sir, this line is for emergencies. Have you filed a claim with Amazon?" Porch cameras drive mass paranoia. If you're not prepared to act on the information yourself, you're just feeding your own fear.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    There is a non 911 phone number for contacting local police if not in an emergency.
    - IshKebab 3y ago
      True, but they're still not going to do anything about your stolen package. You could have video evidence and a license plate. Doesn't matter.
      - petee 3y ago
        Not always true. Our package got nabbed, a person noticed the empty box tossed on a nearby street and called the cops. Cops got video from a near by house an image of a unique car; month later they saw the car, arrested him. He paid for the package and got community service.
      - zirgs 3y ago
        A thief like that doesn't steal just one package. Multiple thefts like that can easily add up to a felony amount. This is why the theft still should be reported. The cops won't look for that package specifically, but they could bust that thief for something else.
  - lokar 3y ago
    You post the image to Nextdoor and everyone comments on the decline of western civilization and moves on with their days.
- at_a_remove 3y ago
  Porch pirates and various vandals. Of course, Rings are essentially worthless for vehicle identification. You would need LPC (License Plate Capture) cameras set up in two directions just for that. They aren't even particularly good for facial identification. Really, if you wanted something actionable, you would do what I had seen someone else done, which was capture plates and have the right cameras and ... as the secret sauce, an IMEI catcher, filtering out the usuals and highlighting who just blasted past. If it is one of the Kia Boys around here, they just get out and re-offend.
tjoff 3y ago
Which is why this is illegal in a lot of jurisdictions (if you can see outside of your own yard).
- bityard 3y ago
  Which jurisdictions? In the US, at least, you can legally film anything and anyone from your own property, and from public property like roads, sidewalks, parks, etc.
  - vetinari 3y ago
    EU (see comment above).
- vetinari 3y ago
  In some jurisdictions even worse: not just outside your own yard, but also publicly-available parts of your own yard (i.e. in front of a gate or fence, or specifically separated areas available to wandering members of public).
  - turtlebits 3y ago
    If it's publicly available, it isn't part of your yard.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- zo1 3y ago
  This is all done by government to effectively disempower the citizens from doing things themselves or in any sort of cooperative manner (even if provably safe etc etc). Oddly enough they turn around and then refuse to protect the citizens from such petty crime. I'm starting to think it's all a giant "bullshit" test to see how far they can push people's obedience. Or they end up conveniently filtering out the people they don't act obedient to the level of filter they've set with their stupid laws and non-enforcement of existing ones like theft.
XorNot 3y ago
A guy advocates assault and then wonders why people are filming everything.
blitzar 3y ago
> Quite how recording your neighbours has become socially acceptable I will never understand It isnt - I consider it a blank cheque for 100k whenever I want to cash it.
- nixgeek 3y ago
  How? I’m curious if you can share any case precedent, particularly examples of such a high amount being awarded? In most U.S. jurisdictions, including WA (which has some of the more stringent law regulating recording), if you’re stood on their property or even on the street, surveillance of you is legal. About the only obligation you may have is to post signage. Recording audio conversations is a bit trickier. In WA, they have RCW 9.73.110 [1] which does make provision for any cameras “within [the] building” recording audio — it’s therefore generally best for exterior cameras to *not* record audio given WA is a two-party consent state (with a few exceptions). Edit: Looks like the person making this ESP32-based solution is in Ireland, which has its own peculiarities but with a bit of effort, it seems like you’d have no issues there either [2]. [1] https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.73.110 https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.73.110 [2] https://smartzone.ie/are-home-cctv-systems-legal-in-ireland-find-out-here https://smartzone.ie/are-home-cctv-systems-legal-in-ireland-...
  - blitzar 3y ago
    I am referring to surveillence of myself on my property. UK: https://www.brettwilson.co.uk/blog/neighbour-cctv-harassment-and-data-protection-claim-succeeds/ https://www.brettwilson.co.uk/blog/neighbour-cctv-harassment... https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Fairhurst-v-Woodard-Judgment-1.pdf https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Fairhurs... Previously - Scotland: https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=854e9b90-2dab-4d99-9c9a-70bb1e85b27b https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=854e9b90-2dab... Daily Mail on the issue: Could EVERY doorbell camera owner face £100,000 fine after landmark ruling? How inadvertently filming neighbours and storing footage breaches their privacy under new data protection laws https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10087671/EVERY-Ring-doorbell-customer-face-100-000-fine-landmark-ruling.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10087671/EVERY-Ring... Depending on the specific circumstances, the domestic use of CCTV could be challenged if its use amounted to harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
jszymborski 3y ago
People have been idly watching their neighbors since neighbors have existed. The problem becomes when a corporation begins filming most neighborhoods and then handing it over to the cops w/o a warrant. As for the smacking of mouths, I'm glad certain norms have changed.

NegativeK 3y ago

Due to the prevalence of porch pirates, people compromised. I refuse to have cloud connected cameras, but I understand why my neighbors have made the choices they have.

shellfishgene 3y ago
Clearly the porch pirate problem is best solved by the delivery people not leaving stuff on porches. This does not happen in other countries.
- Null-Set 3y ago
  What do the delivery people do instead?
  - teddyh 3y ago
    You get an email, SMS (“text message” for non-Europeans), or a paper in your (physical) mailbox informing you that you have a package waiting at such-and-such a place (within walking distance if in a city), or there’s a reference to how you can choose your pickup spot from a handful of options.
    - nine_k 3y ago
      In a city, porch piracy is a non-issue if you live in an apartment building with a lobby. You can open the door to the lobby remotely. I wonder if a remotely openable porch-side "mail box" would find a market.
    - mminer237 3y ago
      That's an option in the US, but going to Walgreens to pick up every package is a much bigger hassle than just opening your door. In very high-crime areas, that's what people do (or get their own lockbox), but in most places in the US trying to prevent the crime is still more popular than trying to avoid it.
  - userabchn 3y ago
    Where I live you had to be home to receive packages. If you weren't, you had to go to a distribution centre to collect them. During the pandemic it seemed to change, so now they just leave them at your front door, and it hasn't gone back.
  - IshKebab 3y ago
    Leave it with a neighbour, attempt redelivery the next day, let you collect it from a delivery office, hide it in a less obvious safe place. Usually they give you the choice of what to do. Though having said that, I live in the UK and do occasionally just get parcels left on my very public doorstep. It's the exception though.
dfee 3y ago
Speaking of porch pirates, what are you going to do when a porch pirate strikes your house? Take down their license plate? Call the police? I'm cynical, but I imagine it goes like this: "Hello, this is 911, how can we help you?" "I'd like to report a 39.99 board game stolen off my porch, license plate ZXX-1234" "Sir, this line is for emergencies. Have you filed a claim with Amazon?" Porch cameras drive mass paranoia. If you're not prepared to act on the information yourself, you're just feeding your own fear.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  There is a non 911 phone number for contacting local police if not in an emergency.
  - IshKebab 3y ago
    True, but they're still not going to do anything about your stolen package. You could have video evidence and a license plate. Doesn't matter.
    - petee 3y ago
      Not always true. Our package got nabbed, a person noticed the empty box tossed on a nearby street and called the cops. Cops got video from a near by house an image of a unique car; month later they saw the car, arrested him. He paid for the package and got community service.
    - zirgs 3y ago
      A thief like that doesn't steal just one package. Multiple thefts like that can easily add up to a felony amount. This is why the theft still should be reported. The cops won't look for that package specifically, but they could bust that thief for something else.
- lokar 3y ago
  You post the image to Nextdoor and everyone comments on the decline of western civilization and moves on with their days.
at_a_remove 3y ago
Porch pirates and various vandals. Of course, Rings are essentially worthless for vehicle identification. You would need LPC (License Plate Capture) cameras set up in two directions just for that. They aren't even particularly good for facial identification. Really, if you wanted something actionable, you would do what I had seen someone else done, which was capture plates and have the right cameras and ... as the secret sauce, an IMEI catcher, filtering out the usuals and highlighting who just blasted past. If it is one of the Kia Boys around here, they just get out and re-offend.

tjoff 3y ago

Which is why this is illegal in a lot of jurisdictions (if you can see outside of your own yard).

bityard 3y ago
Which jurisdictions? In the US, at least, you can legally film anything and anyone from your own property, and from public property like roads, sidewalks, parks, etc.
- vetinari 3y ago
  EU (see comment above).
vetinari 3y ago
In some jurisdictions even worse: not just outside your own yard, but also publicly-available parts of your own yard (i.e. in front of a gate or fence, or specifically separated areas available to wandering members of public).
- turtlebits 3y ago
  If it's publicly available, it isn't part of your yard.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
zo1 3y ago
This is all done by government to effectively disempower the citizens from doing things themselves or in any sort of cooperative manner (even if provably safe etc etc). Oddly enough they turn around and then refuse to protect the citizens from such petty crime. I'm starting to think it's all a giant "bullshit" test to see how far they can push people's obedience. Or they end up conveniently filtering out the people they don't act obedient to the level of filter they've set with their stupid laws and non-enforcement of existing ones like theft.

XorNot 3y ago

A guy advocates assault and then wonders why people are filming everything.

blitzar 3y ago

> Quite how recording your neighbours has become socially acceptable I will never understand It isnt - I consider it a blank cheque for 100k whenever I want to cash it.

nixgeek 3y ago
How? I’m curious if you can share any case precedent, particularly examples of such a high amount being awarded? In most U.S. jurisdictions, including WA (which has some of the more stringent law regulating recording), if you’re stood on their property or even on the street, surveillance of you is legal. About the only obligation you may have is to post signage. Recording audio conversations is a bit trickier. In WA, they have RCW 9.73.110 [1] which does make provision for any cameras “within [the] building” recording audio — it’s therefore generally best for exterior cameras to *not* record audio given WA is a two-party consent state (with a few exceptions). Edit: Looks like the person making this ESP32-based solution is in Ireland, which has its own peculiarities but with a bit of effort, it seems like you’d have no issues there either [2]. [1] https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.73.110 https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.73.110 [2] https://smartzone.ie/are-home-cctv-systems-legal-in-ireland-find-out-here https://smartzone.ie/are-home-cctv-systems-legal-in-ireland-...
- blitzar 3y ago
  I am referring to surveillence of myself on my property. UK: https://www.brettwilson.co.uk/blog/neighbour-cctv-harassment-and-data-protection-claim-succeeds/ https://www.brettwilson.co.uk/blog/neighbour-cctv-harassment... https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Fairhurst-v-Woodard-Judgment-1.pdf https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Fairhurs... Previously - Scotland: https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=854e9b90-2dab-4d99-9c9a-70bb1e85b27b https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=854e9b90-2dab... Daily Mail on the issue: Could EVERY doorbell camera owner face £100,000 fine after landmark ruling? How inadvertently filming neighbours and storing footage breaches their privacy under new data protection laws https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10087671/EVERY-Ring-doorbell-customer-face-100-000-fine-landmark-ruling.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10087671/EVERY-Ring... Depending on the specific circumstances, the domestic use of CCTV could be challenged if its use amounted to harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

jszymborski 3y ago

People have been idly watching their neighbors since neighbors have existed. The problem becomes when a corporation begins filming most neighborhoods and then handing it over to the cops w/o a warrant. As for the smacking of mouths, I'm glad certain norms have changed.