3 ms·

The idea that tolerance 101 is about who you are able to discriminate is quite amusing. Especially in a thread about Orwell, doublethink and all that. Either w

by Levitz 3y ago

The idea that tolerance 101 is about who you are able to discriminate is quite amusing. Especially in a thread about Orwell, doublethink and all that. Either way, yes, if you actually care for freedom of speech you ought to respect that which you find abhorrent. You are supposed to trust that worthwhile ideas prevail while the rest don't. That in this scenario, since the KKK has terrible ideas and yours are better, you benefit from both being out in the open, since yours should surely win over.

Dylan16807 3y ago
> The idea that tolerance 101 is about who you are able to discriminate is quite amusing. Especially in a thread about Orwell, doublethink and all that. "discrimination" in the literal sense isn't bad, it's just making choices. The amusement stems from the very different things people mean when they say "discrimination". And being clear about what people mean with these terms is part of the 101. But more relevantly, I didn't use that word, which is a very easy way to avoid any possible doublethink related to it! > That in this scenario, since the KKK has terrible ideas and yours are better, you benefit from both being out in the open, since yours should surely win over. I didn't say I want them to hide their ideas. I don't. > Either way, yes, if you actually care for freedom of speech you ought to respect that which you find abhorrent. Respect what, specifically? I respect their ability to speak. Do I need to go beyond that?
- momirlan 3y ago
  their ability to speak doesn't depend no your acceptance. their right to speak is what we're talking about
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    With a quippy line like that, without defining terms, we've gone in a circle back to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37131479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37131479 Anyway in this scenario do I have to allow customers to personally insult me too if I want to maintain free speech, or is that different from saying that groups deserve nothing and stole everything they have?
    - Levitz 3y ago
      >Anyway in this scenario do I have to allow customers to personally insult me too if I want to maintain free speech Ideally, yes. Imagine a world in which anyone saying bad things about Amazon or Jeff Bezos was unable to use any of their services.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        Personally, I would have a sliding scale based on how large the business is. And it would go beyond free speech. Companies can ban people on a whim and I don't think that's appropriate either for very big entities.

by Levitz 3y ago

Dylan16807 3y ago

> The idea that tolerance 101 is about who you are able to discriminate is quite amusing. Especially in a thread about Orwell, doublethink and all that. "discrimination" in the literal sense isn't bad, it's just making choices. The amusement stems from the very different things people mean when they say "discrimination". And being clear about what people mean with these terms is part of the 101. But more relevantly, I didn't use that word, which is a very easy way to avoid any possible doublethink related to it! > That in this scenario, since the KKK has terrible ideas and yours are better, you benefit from both being out in the open, since yours should surely win over. I didn't say I want them to hide their ideas. I don't. > Either way, yes, if you actually care for freedom of speech you ought to respect that which you find abhorrent. Respect what, specifically? I respect their ability to speak. Do I need to go beyond that?

momirlan 3y ago
their ability to speak doesn't depend no your acceptance. their right to speak is what we're talking about
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  With a quippy line like that, without defining terms, we've gone in a circle back to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37131479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37131479 Anyway in this scenario do I have to allow customers to personally insult me too if I want to maintain free speech, or is that different from saying that groups deserve nothing and stole everything they have?
  - Levitz 3y ago
    >Anyway in this scenario do I have to allow customers to personally insult me too if I want to maintain free speech Ideally, yes. Imagine a world in which anyone saying bad things about Amazon or Jeff Bezos was unable to use any of their services.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      Personally, I would have a sliding scale based on how large the business is. And it would go beyond free speech. Companies can ban people on a whim and I don't think that's appropriate either for very big entities.