9 ms·

Protip: This is not Justin.TV's fault. This is no ones fault but the adult's (he was over 18). It really is that simple - though you wouldn't know it from the

by joja 18y ago

Protip: This is not Justin.TV's fault. This is no ones fault but the adult's (he was over 18). It really is that simple - though you wouldn't know it from the media. America: where self-entitlement lives on and accountability goes to die.

fuzzmeister 18y ago
That is true, but regardless, egging someone on who appears to be on the edge of suicide is simply inhuman.
- palish 18y ago
  Are you saying androids did this?
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  Stuff like this is bound to happen on a live broadcast site. There's six billion people out there. Every conceivable behavior will be broadcast.
- ErrantX 18y ago
  I think before one can make comments like that you need ot have the FULL story. Unless people here are parto f the community and new the guy (it seems he cried wolf several times) you cant really pass judgement on what was said (except in some of the cases...). I also see (in the threads cache) people telling him it was a bad idea. I really doubt he was listening to any of them anyway....
- brandong 18y ago
  Although the events were pretty horrific (if you've read the original bodybuilding thread - now removed), it is worth keeping in mind that this particular individual had attempted this several other times in the same community. After the first many times, it appeared to almost be a running joke- until, of course, it wasn't.
jmackinn 18y ago
Just because justin.tv may not have been at fault doesn't mean that they won't share in the blame.
jimbokun 18y ago
This seems like the last Seinfeld episode, where they were arrested under a Good Samaritan law for observing a crime but doing nothing to help the victim. If the account in this article is accurate, there were people watching the video feed for "hours" after he took the pills before calling the police. He might be alive if someone called earlier. A similar thing happened in the Joel on Software Offtopic forum. Idiosyncratic, self described AI researcher Chris McKinstry kept talking about suicide, was mocked, then eventually took some pills and started a thread describing his final time on Earth in periodic posts. No video, and he didn't say where he was, but some people in the thread got close to tracking him down but not in time. (I used to contribute there, but had stopped before this happened. I found out about it later and dug up the transcript in the archives when I read about it in Wired: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimystery# http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimyst... "He posted the message on his blog and a slightly different version on a forum at Joel on Software, a popular geek hangout.")
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  If you call the cops every time someone on the net says they're going to do something harmful to themselves or another, law enforcement would never get anything useful done. While I can't imagine egging someone on in that case, it's not our collective responsibility to prevent strangers from harming themselves.
run4yourlives 18y ago
Like most things in life, it's not so cut and dry. I don't have the answers, but some would argue that by providing the forum and doing nothing - or not enough - to curtail the activities of the people on that forum, there is an element of fault with justin.tv.
- gambling8nt 18y ago
  If someone hangs themselves from the tree in my front yard, is there an element of fault with me for supplying the tree? Any effort to shift blame onto j.tv for this is little more than an over-reaction caused by a state of grief...while it is certainly understandable, it is equally indefensible.
  - run4yourlives 18y ago
    Well, if you sit and watch them tying the noose and climb the tree, there is (or certainly can be argued) an element of fault that yes.
    - gambling8nt 18y ago
      But we're not talking about some tiny community where everyone can be watching for this sort of thing from everyone else. What we're talking about is approximately the moral equivalent of blaming the mayor of New York for someone hanging themselves in Central Park.
      - run4yourlives 18y ago
        But we're not talking about some tiny community where everyone can be watching for this sort of thing from everyone else. Well I know, but a lawyer can easily argue that community website operators have a duty to monitor their community for suicides the same way that they monitor for all sorts of other things. (I'm sure if I posted a racist rant it would be dealt with harshly.) What we're talking about is approximately the moral equivalent of blaming the mayor of New York for someone hanging themselves in Central Park. I tend to agree with you, but you should also realize that many cities have invested a great deal of money in anti-suicide devices - precisely because they recognize that they could be held liable, and because it's just a nice thing to do. I'm playing devil's advocate here, so don't take this as my particular viewpoint.
doug_m 18y ago
I do agree with the overall theme of your post but its not a "wash your hands of it and move on" situation. The fact is we're in such a rush to launch our websites and start being businessmen who actually talks this kind of thing through? Who's asking themselves how best to moderate comments and chat as they scale to protect children. What's your response to someone posting obscene or inappropriate content? and how quick do you act? There's definitely an inherent danger here, often we build and engineer so quickly and cheaply that we sacrifice having the kind of staff numbers we need to live up to our ethical responsibilities. All the best to the guys at justin.tv and anyone involved, I'm not judging you for your statement sure you have the best intentions.

by joja 18y ago

fuzzmeister 18y ago

That is true, but regardless, egging someone on who appears to be on the edge of suicide is simply inhuman.

palish 18y ago
Are you saying androids did this?
Prrometheus 18y ago
Stuff like this is bound to happen on a live broadcast site. There's six billion people out there. Every conceivable behavior will be broadcast.
ErrantX 18y ago
I think before one can make comments like that you need ot have the FULL story. Unless people here are parto f the community and new the guy (it seems he cried wolf several times) you cant really pass judgement on what was said (except in some of the cases...). I also see (in the threads cache) people telling him it was a bad idea. I really doubt he was listening to any of them anyway....
brandong 18y ago
Although the events were pretty horrific (if you've read the original bodybuilding thread - now removed), it is worth keeping in mind that this particular individual had attempted this several other times in the same community. After the first many times, it appeared to almost be a running joke- until, of course, it wasn't.

jmackinn 18y ago

Just because justin.tv may not have been at fault doesn't mean that they won't share in the blame.

jimbokun 18y ago

This seems like the last Seinfeld episode, where they were arrested under a Good Samaritan law for observing a crime but doing nothing to help the victim. If the account in this article is accurate, there were people watching the video feed for "hours" after he took the pills before calling the police. He might be alive if someone called earlier. A similar thing happened in the Joel on Software Offtopic forum. Idiosyncratic, self described AI researcher Chris McKinstry kept talking about suicide, was mocked, then eventually took some pills and started a thread describing his final time on Earth in periodic posts. No video, and he didn't say where he was, but some people in the thread got close to tracking him down but not in time. (I used to contribute there, but had stopped before this happened. I found out about it later and dug up the transcript in the archives when I read about it in Wired: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimystery# http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimyst... "He posted the message on his blog and a slightly different version on a forum at Joel on Software, a popular geek hangout.")

mattmaroon 18y ago
If you call the cops every time someone on the net says they're going to do something harmful to themselves or another, law enforcement would never get anything useful done. While I can't imagine egging someone on in that case, it's not our collective responsibility to prevent strangers from harming themselves.

run4yourlives 18y ago

Like most things in life, it's not so cut and dry. I don't have the answers, but some would argue that by providing the forum and doing nothing - or not enough - to curtail the activities of the people on that forum, there is an element of fault with justin.tv.

gambling8nt 18y ago
If someone hangs themselves from the tree in my front yard, is there an element of fault with me for supplying the tree? Any effort to shift blame onto j.tv for this is little more than an over-reaction caused by a state of grief...while it is certainly understandable, it is equally indefensible.
- run4yourlives 18y ago
  Well, if you sit and watch them tying the noose and climb the tree, there is (or certainly can be argued) an element of fault that yes.
  - gambling8nt 18y ago
    But we're not talking about some tiny community where everyone can be watching for this sort of thing from everyone else. What we're talking about is approximately the moral equivalent of blaming the mayor of New York for someone hanging themselves in Central Park.
    - run4yourlives 18y ago
      But we're not talking about some tiny community where everyone can be watching for this sort of thing from everyone else. Well I know, but a lawyer can easily argue that community website operators have a duty to monitor their community for suicides the same way that they monitor for all sorts of other things. (I'm sure if I posted a racist rant it would be dealt with harshly.) What we're talking about is approximately the moral equivalent of blaming the mayor of New York for someone hanging themselves in Central Park. I tend to agree with you, but you should also realize that many cities have invested a great deal of money in anti-suicide devices - precisely because they recognize that they could be held liable, and because it's just a nice thing to do. I'm playing devil's advocate here, so don't take this as my particular viewpoint.

doug_m 18y ago

I do agree with the overall theme of your post but its not a "wash your hands of it and move on" situation. The fact is we're in such a rush to launch our websites and start being businessmen who actually talks this kind of thing through? Who's asking themselves how best to moderate comments and chat as they scale to protect children. What's your response to someone posting obscene or inappropriate content? and how quick do you act? There's definitely an inherent danger here, often we build and engineer so quickly and cheaply that we sacrifice having the kind of staff numbers we need to live up to our ethical responsibilities. All the best to the guys at justin.tv and anyone involved, I'm not judging you for your statement sure you have the best intentions.