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This might be true if everyone everywhere had good clean wall power. But since they don't, light bulbs, even LED bulbs, continue to be be a consumable object. T

This might be true if everyone everywhere had good clean wall power. But since they don't, light bulbs, even LED bulbs, continue to be be a consumable object. The early claims of 50,000 hours never happened. They're down to claiming 10,000 hours and even this is only if you have perfect power. LED bulbs, at least in my apartment, actually last a shorter amount of time than halogen bulbs. At least halogens and incandescents were just a bit of glass and some wire. LED bulbs all have a circuit board with many components. If they're taking the place of incandescent and still being a consumable item it might be worse for the environment in the long run. At least incandescents using lots of power puts all the CO2 production in centralized locations that can be mitigated. LEDs environmental footprint is much more distributed. I'm not against LEDs light bulbs. I replaced almost all of mine with LEDs (though I have a stockpile of halogens for some uses). But they're certainly not going to change the world. Light bulbs remain consumable items.

shrubble 3y ago
It's planned obsolescence... there are parts in the drivers that if specified at a higher quality would last a lot longer. Cost of the additional quality would be a few cents.
matheweis 3y ago
> Light bulbs remain consumable items. And worse, they cost ten to twenty times as much as comparable incandescent bulbs, and they honestly don’t even last as long..
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  That's not my experience. Even the cheap LED bulbs last far longer than incandescent ones.
- neongodzilla 3y ago
  And that is all entirely by design. Which means it can be changed. It is an issue with the companies, not the technology.
- atoav 3y ago
  I had 1 (one) LED bulb fail in the past 10 years. But I live in the EU, so maybe those LED bulbs follow stricter regulations.
winrid 3y ago
It's not your power. The circuitry just isn't built to last, intentionally. :( For example, Philips made LED bulbs sold in Dubai [0] that last many times longer than the ones in the US. [0] https://hackaday.com/2021/01/17/leds-from-dubai-the-royal-lights-you-cant-buy/ https://hackaday.com/2021/01/17/leds-from-dubai-the-royal-li... If your power was the issue, it would probably have to be so bad that you'd regularly kill all kinds of equipment...
- rudolph9 3y ago
  It is cheaper to make bulbs that can’t handle voltage fluctuations but still yeah agreed led bulbs can last a very long time if they’re designed to.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  > For example, Philips made LED bulbs sold in Dubai [0] that last many times longer than the ones in the US. I have an early U.S. Philips bulb that has been burning continuously since December, 2010. It cost about forty bucks, as I recall. It's in a dark entryway where it's a real pain in the butt to change the bulb, so I was happy to pay that if it meant not getting out the ladder several times a year. You're right -- the ones made now don't last nearly as long. On the other hand, they don't cost forty bucks, either.
  - winrid 3y ago
    I imagine the cost would be about double in terms of manufacturing. So if an LED bulb costs $5, the "long-life" one would only cost $10. However, we know things are rarely priced logically so it would probably cost much more.
eternityforest 3y ago
It's not the wall power, it's the heat from the LEDs as far as I know, plus the fact consumer power conversion electronics just aren't as reliable in general as other things. Maybe one of these HN startup people will make the first modular light fixture with separate "ballast", LED, and "Smart Element", if desired. There's not really any technical barriers to making 10 or 20 year fixtures (I suspect a large number of cheap LED desk lights today will be around in a few decades if not tossed while perfectly good).
- jaclaz 3y ago
  From experience, led lights with a separate driver (like those spots for ceilings) are very long lasting, the thing that breaks and needs to be replaced is usually just the driver, the actual leds almost never fail. That (separate led and driver, or hoewever make the driver replaceable) should be the norm even for common bulbs, surely there would stil be some issues with the heat, but we would save lots of money (besides reducing the amount of electronic waste).
  - eternityforest 3y ago
    LEDs do get dimmer over time, so they should still be replaceable if possible. A lot of fixtures are big enough to hide a recessed but still accessible box with a USB charger. USB powered lights would solve a lot of this, they are more durable by far than led bulbs it seems, and the bulb itself would only need to request a specific current via PPS. No new standards created, all parts reusable in other things, nothing intimidating for a consumer that would require professional service, if it breaks you probably already have a spare, if you want to get more compact than USB C wall outlets already exist.
    - jaclaz 3y ago
      It could well be (for common threaded bulbs) a sort of socket adapter, the base containing the driver and a connector to the actual bulb/led. The 5V choice might not be the best one, but 12 or 24 V (like commonly led strip are powered) could be fine.
midoridensha 3y ago
Don't blame the power quality. The power is fine. Is your PC/laptop power supply burning out regularly? Your monitors or TV? Anything else in your home? No. If something fails early because of "poor quality" power, that just means it wasn't engineered properly. Modern switch-mode power supplies can work with an astounding range of input voltage.
- superkuh 3y ago
  Normally you'd be right saying this to any random person on the internet. But my power really is bad in this apartment. I literally have a room where all the outlets read 80v peak to peak due to, I assume, a loose neutral. The halogens handle it fine but it kills anything with a circuit board eventually. Most people in highly developed countries don't have this problem so I'm an exception there. But most people in the world don't live in highly developed areas.
pinkgolem 3y ago
I really can not confirm this, or my power is perfect... I moved in 5 years ago, most rooms where fitted with LEDs back then 2 had old lamps that got replaced later on, it's not a big flat.. so 15 bulbs first stage The ones without LEDs? Replaced 4 bulbs in 2 years before replacing everything with LEDs.. (5 bulbs) Not a single led one replaced so far, and some of them are burning > 6 hours a day.
atoav 3y ago
LEDs get hot when thwy light up. The LED srivers sit above the LED. The number of thermal cycles that LED driver will endure is finite. The solution can be to install a dedicated 12/24 V low voltage DC grid and drive it with constant current drivers. I have one in my workshop and it Runs my LEDs for the past 12 years without a single fault.
jsbisviewtiful 3y ago
I've got some Phillips Hue bulbs that are now beyond 10 years old. Obviously that's anecdotal but so far I've had great luck with my LED bulbs.
LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago
Have you tried plain simple warm-white led-filament stuff for retrofitting lightbulb sockets, or some whizzbang dimmable multicolor toys with remote control?

shrubble 3y ago

It's planned obsolescence... there are parts in the drivers that if specified at a higher quality would last a lot longer. Cost of the additional quality would be a few cents.

matheweis 3y ago

> Light bulbs remain consumable items. And worse, they cost ten to twenty times as much as comparable incandescent bulbs, and they honestly don’t even last as long..

Turing_Machine 3y ago
That's not my experience. Even the cheap LED bulbs last far longer than incandescent ones.
neongodzilla 3y ago
And that is all entirely by design. Which means it can be changed. It is an issue with the companies, not the technology.
atoav 3y ago
I had 1 (one) LED bulb fail in the past 10 years. But I live in the EU, so maybe those LED bulbs follow stricter regulations.

winrid 3y ago

It's not your power. The circuitry just isn't built to last, intentionally. :( For example, Philips made LED bulbs sold in Dubai [0] that last many times longer than the ones in the US. [0] https://hackaday.com/2021/01/17/leds-from-dubai-the-royal-lights-you-cant-buy/ https://hackaday.com/2021/01/17/leds-from-dubai-the-royal-li... If your power was the issue, it would probably have to be so bad that you'd regularly kill all kinds of equipment...

rudolph9 3y ago
It is cheaper to make bulbs that can’t handle voltage fluctuations but still yeah agreed led bulbs can last a very long time if they’re designed to.
Turing_Machine 3y ago
> For example, Philips made LED bulbs sold in Dubai [0] that last many times longer than the ones in the US. I have an early U.S. Philips bulb that has been burning continuously since December, 2010. It cost about forty bucks, as I recall. It's in a dark entryway where it's a real pain in the butt to change the bulb, so I was happy to pay that if it meant not getting out the ladder several times a year. You're right -- the ones made now don't last nearly as long. On the other hand, they don't cost forty bucks, either.
- winrid 3y ago
  I imagine the cost would be about double in terms of manufacturing. So if an LED bulb costs $5, the "long-life" one would only cost $10. However, we know things are rarely priced logically so it would probably cost much more.

eternityforest 3y ago

It's not the wall power, it's the heat from the LEDs as far as I know, plus the fact consumer power conversion electronics just aren't as reliable in general as other things. Maybe one of these HN startup people will make the first modular light fixture with separate "ballast", LED, and "Smart Element", if desired. There's not really any technical barriers to making 10 or 20 year fixtures (I suspect a large number of cheap LED desk lights today will be around in a few decades if not tossed while perfectly good).

jaclaz 3y ago
From experience, led lights with a separate driver (like those spots for ceilings) are very long lasting, the thing that breaks and needs to be replaced is usually just the driver, the actual leds almost never fail. That (separate led and driver, or hoewever make the driver replaceable) should be the norm even for common bulbs, surely there would stil be some issues with the heat, but we would save lots of money (besides reducing the amount of electronic waste).
- eternityforest 3y ago
  LEDs do get dimmer over time, so they should still be replaceable if possible. A lot of fixtures are big enough to hide a recessed but still accessible box with a USB charger. USB powered lights would solve a lot of this, they are more durable by far than led bulbs it seems, and the bulb itself would only need to request a specific current via PPS. No new standards created, all parts reusable in other things, nothing intimidating for a consumer that would require professional service, if it breaks you probably already have a spare, if you want to get more compact than USB C wall outlets already exist.
  - jaclaz 3y ago
    It could well be (for common threaded bulbs) a sort of socket adapter, the base containing the driver and a connector to the actual bulb/led. The 5V choice might not be the best one, but 12 or 24 V (like commonly led strip are powered) could be fine.

midoridensha 3y ago

Don't blame the power quality. The power is fine. Is your PC/laptop power supply burning out regularly? Your monitors or TV? Anything else in your home? No. If something fails early because of "poor quality" power, that just means it wasn't engineered properly. Modern switch-mode power supplies can work with an astounding range of input voltage.

superkuh 3y ago
Normally you'd be right saying this to any random person on the internet. But my power really is bad in this apartment. I literally have a room where all the outlets read 80v peak to peak due to, I assume, a loose neutral. The halogens handle it fine but it kills anything with a circuit board eventually. Most people in highly developed countries don't have this problem so I'm an exception there. But most people in the world don't live in highly developed areas.

pinkgolem 3y ago

I really can not confirm this, or my power is perfect... I moved in 5 years ago, most rooms where fitted with LEDs back then 2 had old lamps that got replaced later on, it's not a big flat.. so 15 bulbs first stage The ones without LEDs? Replaced 4 bulbs in 2 years before replacing everything with LEDs.. (5 bulbs) Not a single led one replaced so far, and some of them are burning > 6 hours a day.

atoav 3y ago

LEDs get hot when thwy light up. The LED srivers sit above the LED. The number of thermal cycles that LED driver will endure is finite. The solution can be to install a dedicated 12/24 V low voltage DC grid and drive it with constant current drivers. I have one in my workshop and it Runs my LEDs for the past 12 years without a single fault.

jsbisviewtiful 3y ago

I've got some Phillips Hue bulbs that are now beyond 10 years old. Obviously that's anecdotal but so far I've had great luck with my LED bulbs.

LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago

Have you tried plain simple warm-white led-filament stuff for retrofitting lightbulb sockets, or some whizzbang dimmable multicolor toys with remote control?