4 ms·

"We’re basically continuously narked, we’re just so used to it we don’t even know." Just because one direction on the gradient means that we respond in a way t

by jerf 3y ago

"We’re basically continuously narked, we’re just so used to it we don’t even know." Just because one direction on the gradient means that we respond in a way that looks like a narcotic does not mean that the other direction will respond in the opposite manner. I'm sure the nootropics folks would have discovered being super not high by now if it were as easy as breathing a mixture that doesn't have nitrogen in it.

hn8305823 3y ago
> I'm sure the nootropics folks would have discovered being super not high by now if it were as easy as breathing a mixture that doesn't have nitrogen in it. Maybe this is what Oxygen Bars are actually about but nobody knows it yet.
- karagenit 3y ago
  O2 actually has a stronger narcotic effect than N2, so probably it would have the opposite effect if any.
  - carlmr 3y ago
    Also there are plenty of drugs that make you more focused, but they also make you _high_ at a certain dosage, _normal_ is just what's the default level.
genewitch 3y ago
as siblings commented, pure oxygen gets you high. a couple of breaths of pure oxygen will relieve pain and induce euphoria. I am not entirely clear on the definition of "narcotic" so i may be being redundant. My issue, though, is i can't find a way to safely generate oxygen for a decent price. I know electrolysis works, but these atomic sieves look safer. They're also difficult to acquire without a prescription, at least from my searches in the US. And i know lithium can react to generate oxygen, but that's not what i consider "safe".
- tonyarkles 3y ago
  Someone else in this thread mentioned diving. When I was doing my advanced open water course, we did an exercise to demonstrate nitrogen narcosis. Super simple test: we had a card with the numbers 1-16 written on a 4x4 grid in random order. You have to tap the numbers in order and it’s a timed exercise. We did it on the surface in the boat and again at 30m depth; my performance was maybe 20% slower, my buddy was more like 40-50% slower.
  - p1necone 3y ago
    Wouldn't being underwater make you slower just due to the extra resistance of water vs air?
    - eru 3y ago
      Just being submerged in the water is probably what they mean by 'at the surface'. The resistance shouldn't change much whether you are 30cm in the water or 30m.
      - tonyarkles 3y ago
        Yeah, apologies, we did the first round about 6 feet below the surface. For me, at least, the resistance wouldn't have made a huge difference anyway; while some people suffer from nitrogen narcosis and don't realize it, I definitely felt mentally "slow" while doing the test at depth. It was frustrating knowing that, 15 minutes earlier, the task felt easy but at depth it felt really mentally challenging. While I was only about 20% slower, the qualitative mental effort was drastically higher.
- dTal 3y ago
  All you need is zeolite crystals and a compressor. Zeolite fixes nitrogen under pressure, so you can use it to separate nitrogen from oxygen. This is how those "oxygen concentrators" work. I'm sure you get can hold of a relatively-cheap chinese one, they don't have dangerous parts or controlled substances. But it wouldn't be that hard to build one from scratch either. https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-oxygen-concentrator.html https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-oxygen-concentrator.h...
gojomo 3y ago
You'd hope mind-hackers would've explored & confirmed/refuted/quantified the effect, but stuff like this often lies underexplored for decades, despite hints like this 1975 study – which actually shows the 'gradient' of clearer thinking continues in the other direction, no hand-wavy extrapolation required. It's what they found! In 1975! How long did it take for society to fully recognize, & remediate, the effects of environmental lead? How many people & orgs remain oblivious to the cognitive deficits caused by high indoor CO2 levels? I hope mind-hackers do some fresh research on this, with the advantage of 2023 levels of wealth/free-time/returns-to-improved-cognition/SCUBA-equipment. There could be some potential for positive surprise around what you're "sure" should've already been discovered.
- __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
  Expense report: scuba regulator for "deep work" sessions.
- Aerroon 3y ago
  Maybe it remains underexplored because if you find a significant effect and popularize it, then the substance gets banned. The people interested in using stuff like this have an incentive to avoid scientific research on the subject. Hell, even NAC almost got banned recently.
  - nradov 3y ago
    Don't be ridiculous, no one is going to ban helium.
    - Aerroon 3y ago
      They'll just make using it this way illegal and scrutinize purchases/suppliers as usual. NAC has been an over the counter supplement since the 70s and only an uproar from people a few years ago kept it unbanned by the FDA.
      - nradov 3y ago
naikrovek 3y ago
> Just because one direction on the gradient means that we respond in a way that looks like a narcotic does not mean that the other direction will respond in the opposite manner. that's literally what this study is about! this study is about how replacing nitrogen with helium decreased reaction time in human participants by over 9%.

by jerf 3y ago

hn8305823 3y ago

> I'm sure the nootropics folks would have discovered being super not high by now if it were as easy as breathing a mixture that doesn't have nitrogen in it. Maybe this is what Oxygen Bars are actually about but nobody knows it yet.

karagenit 3y ago
O2 actually has a stronger narcotic effect than N2, so probably it would have the opposite effect if any.
- carlmr 3y ago
  Also there are plenty of drugs that make you more focused, but they also make you _high_ at a certain dosage, _normal_ is just what's the default level.

genewitch 3y ago

as siblings commented, pure oxygen gets you high. a couple of breaths of pure oxygen will relieve pain and induce euphoria. I am not entirely clear on the definition of "narcotic" so i may be being redundant. My issue, though, is i can't find a way to safely generate oxygen for a decent price. I know electrolysis works, but these atomic sieves look safer. They're also difficult to acquire without a prescription, at least from my searches in the US. And i know lithium can react to generate oxygen, but that's not what i consider "safe".

tonyarkles 3y ago
Someone else in this thread mentioned diving. When I was doing my advanced open water course, we did an exercise to demonstrate nitrogen narcosis. Super simple test: we had a card with the numbers 1-16 written on a 4x4 grid in random order. You have to tap the numbers in order and it’s a timed exercise. We did it on the surface in the boat and again at 30m depth; my performance was maybe 20% slower, my buddy was more like 40-50% slower.
- p1necone 3y ago
  Wouldn't being underwater make you slower just due to the extra resistance of water vs air?
  - eru 3y ago
    Just being submerged in the water is probably what they mean by 'at the surface'. The resistance shouldn't change much whether you are 30cm in the water or 30m.
    - tonyarkles 3y ago
      Yeah, apologies, we did the first round about 6 feet below the surface. For me, at least, the resistance wouldn't have made a huge difference anyway; while some people suffer from nitrogen narcosis and don't realize it, I definitely felt mentally "slow" while doing the test at depth. It was frustrating knowing that, 15 minutes earlier, the task felt easy but at depth it felt really mentally challenging. While I was only about 20% slower, the qualitative mental effort was drastically higher.
dTal 3y ago
All you need is zeolite crystals and a compressor. Zeolite fixes nitrogen under pressure, so you can use it to separate nitrogen from oxygen. This is how those "oxygen concentrators" work. I'm sure you get can hold of a relatively-cheap chinese one, they don't have dangerous parts or controlled substances. But it wouldn't be that hard to build one from scratch either. https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-oxygen-concentrator.html https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-oxygen-concentrator.h...

gojomo 3y ago

You'd hope mind-hackers would've explored & confirmed/refuted/quantified the effect, but stuff like this often lies underexplored for decades, despite hints like this 1975 study – which actually shows the 'gradient' of clearer thinking continues in the other direction, no hand-wavy extrapolation required. It's what they found! In 1975! How long did it take for society to fully recognize, & remediate, the effects of environmental lead? How many people & orgs remain oblivious to the cognitive deficits caused by high indoor CO2 levels? I hope mind-hackers do some fresh research on this, with the advantage of 2023 levels of wealth/free-time/returns-to-improved-cognition/SCUBA-equipment. There could be some potential for positive surprise around what you're "sure" should've already been discovered.

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
Expense report: scuba regulator for "deep work" sessions.
Aerroon 3y ago
Maybe it remains underexplored because if you find a significant effect and popularize it, then the substance gets banned. The people interested in using stuff like this have an incentive to avoid scientific research on the subject. Hell, even NAC almost got banned recently.
- nradov 3y ago
  Don't be ridiculous, no one is going to ban helium.
  - Aerroon 3y ago
    They'll just make using it this way illegal and scrutinize purchases/suppliers as usual. NAC has been an over the counter supplement since the 70s and only an uproar from people a few years ago kept it unbanned by the FDA.
    - nradov 3y ago

naikrovek 3y ago

> Just because one direction on the gradient means that we respond in a way that looks like a narcotic does not mean that the other direction will respond in the opposite manner. that's literally what this study is about! this study is about how replacing nitrogen with helium decreased reaction time in human participants by over 9%.