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Apple to pay up to $500M to iPhone users

39 points by isaacfrond 3y ago

xchip 3y ago
1) How much per user? 2) Is this a fine that compensates users for the damage caused? 3) Will this fine make apple do better next time?
- jaclaz 3y ago
  1) >About 3 million claims were received, and the latest estimate puts compensation at about $65 per claim, said Tyson Redenbarger, a lawyer who represented iPhone customers in the case. 2) No, it is a settlement with no admission of wrongdoing[1] 3) Very likely no. [1] this is something I never understood of the Law about these kind of settlements, if someone pays something to the other party, something wrong must have been done
  - civilitty 3y ago
    > [1] this is something I never understood of the Law about these kind of settlements, if someone pays something to the other party, something wrong must have been done Admitting wrongdoing would give anyone who declines the settlement a slam dunk case in court.
    - jaclaz 3y ago
      Sure, but the Law could well be made so that the admission of responsibility is compulsory but a sort of statute of limitations is triggered so that no further action can be initiated for the same reasons.
      - 1123581321 3y ago
        That’s the current system, minus a public apology.
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    > this is something I never understood of the Law about these kind of settlements, if someone pays something to the other party, something wrong must have been done With a civil suit, that's not necessarily the case, because there is a very different burden of proof compared to a criminal case. For civil trials the burden of proof is preponderance of the evidence, which means that the plaintiff merely needs to show that the fact in dispute is more likely than not. In comparison, criminal trials require a much higher burden of proof known as beyond a reasonable doubt. > https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/preponderance_of_the_evidence https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/preponderance_of_the_evidenc...
    - jaclaz 3y ago
      The burden of proof has nothing to do with the admission (or not admission) of wrongdoing. A settlement is a way to end a dispute by agreeing to a solution, in other countries it is "normal" that a party admits (partial) responsibility and pays to the other party a (monetary) compensation and the other party accepts the compensation and promises to refrain from further actions in court. In such cases the admission is the actual reason why the compensation can be given to the other party. The way these class action settlements are closed seems like one party did nothing wrong still it gives money to the other party (why? because they are generous?).
      - lockhouse 3y ago
        They are not paying out because they are generous, but I have seen companies pay out even when the case against them is flimsy simply because it’s the smartest business decision for them. These settlements are usually significantly less costly than if a civil case actually went to trial. Civil courts tend not to be very friendly to those with deep pockets. The burden of proof is very low, and the prevailing attitude is that they can afford it, so why not award compensation to the plaintiff.
- besnn00 3y ago
  "Approved claimants are expected to receive $65 each."
hu3 3y ago
"...class-action lawsuit accusing Apple of secretly throttling phone performance..." I wonder what the fine will be when current gen iPhones are slowed down with iOS updates. I don't even think Apple does it intentionally. Software just gets more complex and slower every year on average.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  > I wonder what the fine will be when current gen iPhones are slowed down with iOS updates. I know this is TikTok gospel, but our kids use iPhone 8s and run iOS 16 just fine. My take is that most of these posts are by people who truly do need a battery replacement, or are by the kind of person who has to have the latest phone and gets peeved when it no longer is.
  - hu3 3y ago
    I'm sure they do. But the post is about iPhone 6. And if I wasn't clear, I blame software development in general, not Apple. Some other brands are worst in terms of device longevity (looking at you Samsung).
mnd999 3y ago
I still think this was a decent engineering solution, although of course easily replaceable batteries would have been better. This should be a case study at PR school on how not to communicate with your customers though. Had they been open about what they were doing, why, and allowing customers to turn it off they wouldn’t be in this situation. The probably would have made a lot more cash on battery replacements too.
- datadrivenangel 3y ago
  Exactly. It's a good software solution to a hardware problem. But because they hid it they deserve this 100%.
  - rhaway84773 3y ago
    They didn’t just hide it. They would vehemently deny it. And then when you tried to find help on Apple support and Apple forums about it you would be belittled when describing the behavior and made to believe you were imagining it all. It was gaslighting at corporate scale.
    - Analemma_ 3y ago
      Where did they vehemently deny it?
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Most other phone manufacturers do the same too. It is very common for the CPU frequency to be reduced below 50% battery, or the flashlight to be disabled under 15% battery, or the LTE modem to switch to single antenna mode (saving power) whenever the camera was on. All of those things are because as the battery ages, it's internal resistance increases, which means the terminal voltage drops a lot whenever it is under heavy load. When the battery voltage is low (ie. nearly empty), and then the terminal voltage drops more due to high load on an old battery, you can dip below the minimum voltage necessary for the voltage regulators and the phone will power off suddenly - even if there might be 20% charge left!. Users don't like their phone randomly turning off before the battery hits nil, so these little tricks are the lesser of two evils. Android even has a special file for the manufacturer to configure all these hacks in!
gentleman11 3y ago
About $65 per claimant, which is nothing compared to the cost of needing to get a new phone. Apple didn’t even have to admit wrongdoing. #justiceserved
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  Leaving the handsets to reboot would have driven sales of new phones. They extended the life of phones with degraded batteries. Source: my wife never bothered getting her battery replaced, didn’t care about the speed but 100% would have upgraded if the phone rebooted under load.
- SirMaster 3y ago
  A new phone? Didn't they just need a new battery? Batteries for the affected models if I recall were $50.

39 points by isaacfrond 3y ago

1) How much per user? 2) Is this a fine that compensates users for the damage caused? 3) Will this fine make apple do better next time?

jaclaz 3y ago
1) >About 3 million claims were received, and the latest estimate puts compensation at about $65 per claim, said Tyson Redenbarger, a lawyer who represented iPhone customers in the case. 2) No, it is a settlement with no admission of wrongdoing[1] 3) Very likely no. [1] this is something I never understood of the Law about these kind of settlements, if someone pays something to the other party, something wrong must have been done
- civilitty 3y ago
  > [1] this is something I never understood of the Law about these kind of settlements, if someone pays something to the other party, something wrong must have been done Admitting wrongdoing would give anyone who declines the settlement a slam dunk case in court.
  - jaclaz 3y ago
    Sure, but the Law could well be made so that the admission of responsibility is compulsory but a sort of statute of limitations is triggered so that no further action can be initiated for the same reasons.
    - 1123581321 3y ago
      That’s the current system, minus a public apology.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  > this is something I never understood of the Law about these kind of settlements, if someone pays something to the other party, something wrong must have been done With a civil suit, that's not necessarily the case, because there is a very different burden of proof compared to a criminal case. For civil trials the burden of proof is preponderance of the evidence, which means that the plaintiff merely needs to show that the fact in dispute is more likely than not. In comparison, criminal trials require a much higher burden of proof known as beyond a reasonable doubt. > https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/preponderance_of_the_evidence https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/preponderance_of_the_evidenc...
  - jaclaz 3y ago
    The burden of proof has nothing to do with the admission (or not admission) of wrongdoing. A settlement is a way to end a dispute by agreeing to a solution, in other countries it is "normal" that a party admits (partial) responsibility and pays to the other party a (monetary) compensation and the other party accepts the compensation and promises to refrain from further actions in court. In such cases the admission is the actual reason why the compensation can be given to the other party. The way these class action settlements are closed seems like one party did nothing wrong still it gives money to the other party (why? because they are generous?).
    - lockhouse 3y ago
      They are not paying out because they are generous, but I have seen companies pay out even when the case against them is flimsy simply because it’s the smartest business decision for them. These settlements are usually significantly less costly than if a civil case actually went to trial. Civil courts tend not to be very friendly to those with deep pockets. The burden of proof is very low, and the prevailing attitude is that they can afford it, so why not award compensation to the plaintiff.
besnn00 3y ago
"Approved claimants are expected to receive $65 each."

hu3 3y ago

"...class-action lawsuit accusing Apple of secretly throttling phone performance..." I wonder what the fine will be when current gen iPhones are slowed down with iOS updates. I don't even think Apple does it intentionally. Software just gets more complex and slower every year on average.

CharlesW 3y ago
> I wonder what the fine will be when current gen iPhones are slowed down with iOS updates. I know this is TikTok gospel, but our kids use iPhone 8s and run iOS 16 just fine. My take is that most of these posts are by people who truly do need a battery replacement, or are by the kind of person who has to have the latest phone and gets peeved when it no longer is.
- hu3 3y ago
  I'm sure they do. But the post is about iPhone 6. And if I wasn't clear, I blame software development in general, not Apple. Some other brands are worst in terms of device longevity (looking at you Samsung).

mnd999 3y ago

I still think this was a decent engineering solution, although of course easily replaceable batteries would have been better. This should be a case study at PR school on how not to communicate with your customers though. Had they been open about what they were doing, why, and allowing customers to turn it off they wouldn’t be in this situation. The probably would have made a lot more cash on battery replacements too.

datadrivenangel 3y ago
Exactly. It's a good software solution to a hardware problem. But because they hid it they deserve this 100%.
- rhaway84773 3y ago
  They didn’t just hide it. They would vehemently deny it. And then when you tried to find help on Apple support and Apple forums about it you would be belittled when describing the behavior and made to believe you were imagining it all. It was gaslighting at corporate scale.
  - Analemma_ 3y ago
    Where did they vehemently deny it?
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Most other phone manufacturers do the same too. It is very common for the CPU frequency to be reduced below 50% battery, or the flashlight to be disabled under 15% battery, or the LTE modem to switch to single antenna mode (saving power) whenever the camera was on. All of those things are because as the battery ages, it's internal resistance increases, which means the terminal voltage drops a lot whenever it is under heavy load. When the battery voltage is low (ie. nearly empty), and then the terminal voltage drops more due to high load on an old battery, you can dip below the minimum voltage necessary for the voltage regulators and the phone will power off suddenly - even if there might be 20% charge left!. Users don't like their phone randomly turning off before the battery hits nil, so these little tricks are the lesser of two evils. Android even has a special file for the manufacturer to configure all these hacks in!

gentleman11 3y ago

About $65 per claimant, which is nothing compared to the cost of needing to get a new phone. Apple didn’t even have to admit wrongdoing. #justiceserved

thebruce87m 3y ago
Leaving the handsets to reboot would have driven sales of new phones. They extended the life of phones with degraded batteries. Source: my wife never bothered getting her battery replaced, didn’t care about the speed but 100% would have upgraded if the phone rebooted under load.
SirMaster 3y ago
A new phone? Didn't they just need a new battery? Batteries for the affected models if I recall were $50.