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As a newly minted bad manager, it rankles her that there is somehow a moral judgement of bad managers. Developers, QA, product can all be incompetent, but whe

by JackFr 3y ago

As a newly minted bad manager, it rankles her that there is somehow a moral judgement of bad managers. Developers, QA, product can all be incompetent, but when a manager is incompetent, he’s “evil”. In all seriousness, incompetence should never be rewarded and bad behavior should be called out, but in nearly every case we’re all really trying to do our best.

whoknowsidont 3y ago
The difference is that it's managements job to identify, correct, or quarantine all those bad reports. There's also easy and cheap ways that devs, QA, and product are labelled as "incompetent." Proving that management is incompetent is a fairly large task in and of itself, and the people that can hold them accountable are all peers who generally wouldn't dare to "rock the boat" so to speak. I've termed this whole set of phenomenon as a "managerial crisis", and it's been written about extensively since the last 60's.
- YZF 3y ago
  Any good references you can recommend?
heisenbit 3y ago
> nearly every case we’re all really trying to do our best. If you sitting in the same boat this is a reasonable approach most of the time. Even then you may have to deal with an occasional irrationally acting person. However if you are in another boat e.g. providing services or products there are a lot fewer barriers for misbehavior and some may be even rewarded. Win-win and win-loose are different games and deluding yourself in what game you find yourself in a quick way to fail big.
isaacremuant 3y ago
The difference is that a very natural and common reaction by some in positions of power is to blame down the hierarchy. That's the "evil" part. The unethical "I'll save myself" if things wrong and having extra power to sell that narrative due to hierarchy. You may be trying to do your best but saying nearly every case is pretty false for anyone who has observed the power dynamics for a long time. Hey, the same happens with developers. Depending on the org, your best for the team and your best for the career rarely meet and it's harder to have them meet as a manager.

by JackFr 3y ago

whoknowsidont 3y ago

The difference is that it's managements job to identify, correct, or quarantine all those bad reports. There's also easy and cheap ways that devs, QA, and product are labelled as "incompetent." Proving that management is incompetent is a fairly large task in and of itself, and the people that can hold them accountable are all peers who generally wouldn't dare to "rock the boat" so to speak. I've termed this whole set of phenomenon as a "managerial crisis", and it's been written about extensively since the last 60's.

YZF 3y ago
Any good references you can recommend?

heisenbit 3y ago

> nearly every case we’re all really trying to do our best. If you sitting in the same boat this is a reasonable approach most of the time. Even then you may have to deal with an occasional irrationally acting person. However if you are in another boat e.g. providing services or products there are a lot fewer barriers for misbehavior and some may be even rewarded. Win-win and win-loose are different games and deluding yourself in what game you find yourself in a quick way to fail big.

isaacremuant 3y ago

The difference is that a very natural and common reaction by some in positions of power is to blame down the hierarchy. That's the "evil" part. The unethical "I'll save myself" if things wrong and having extra power to sell that narrative due to hierarchy. You may be trying to do your best but saying nearly every case is pretty false for anyone who has observed the power dynamics for a long time. Hey, the same happens with developers. Depending on the org, your best for the team and your best for the career rarely meet and it's harder to have them meet as a manager.