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You’re comparing vscode telemetry with “selling your data”? For real? Do you think the amount of time you spend in the File menu is as monetizable as your sear

You’re comparing vscode telemetry with “selling your data”? For real? Do you think the amount of time you spend in the File menu is as monetizable as your search history?

candiddevmike 3y ago
It's quite valuable to vendors who are trying to gauge usage and interest, yes.
- scrollaway 3y ago
  … what? I don’t even know how to find common ground with such a take. You’re saying vscode telemetry (which can be turned off by the way) is as bad as other data monetization because building a better product is profitable? I hope I completely misunderstood you.
- dale_glass 3y ago
  It's valuable to Microsoft, but why would anybody else want to pay for data about the usage of a Microsoft product? And why would Microsoft sell it? Like would you want to sell information like "X% of users can't figure out how to change the code formatting settings"? Or if you did learn something cool and useful, why would you sell it to the potential competition?
  - adventured 3y ago
    A lot of tech companies would pay for that vast trove of user data. There are possibly no better sources on usage for mass consumer software than what Microsoft has from the past few decades (Office and Windows in particular; the next best would be browsers and or various Apple software). Why would anybody pay for customer traffic/browsing/shopping data for inside of a Walmart store? Nearly every retailer would pay for access to that, assuming the cost is reasonable. Vendors desperately want access to it. Microsoft would be crazy to sell it openly. Its part of their competitive advantage, helping to protect $83 billion in operating income. They'd get tiny particles of revenue in comparison to the gigantic golden egg they're sitting on.
    - dale_glass 3y ago
      Data isn't intrinsically valuable, useful data is. I can't imagine a lot of cases where telemetry would be on sale. On one hand, telemetry is specific to a specific product. Knowing how often people use the File menu in Visual Studio doesn't help me with my own application that much. On the other hand, telemetry is potentially a boon to the competition. Can you imagine if say, the LibreOffice project could buy MS Office telemetry to better decide what features to implement, or just to embarrass Microsoft by revealing how much something crashes? For me, pretty much all telemetry seems to fall into one of those two boxes -- either useless because I'm not working on a clone, or useful and MS would be nuts to sell the info to me because I am working on a clone. > Why would anybody pay for customer traffic/browsing/shopping data for inside of a Walmart store? Nearly every retailer would pay for access to that, assuming the cost is reasonable. Vendors desperately want access to it. But Walmart would be crazy to sell it as-is, because why would they help their competition optimize their store layouts/warehousing? At best, I think Walmart might want to sell a derived service, like a slow trickle of recommendations to improve sales. Not the actual underlying data.
  - derefr 3y ago
    You know those preinstalled-but-not-really app ads that are in the Start Menu, for Candy Crush and the like? How much do you think those are worth — what's the right CPM for them? (And yes, these are adspace, with CPM costs — even if you never click+install Candy Crush from the start menu, you're still being reminded of its existence every time you open the start menu, so the impressions are valuable, not just the conversions.) Microsoft knows the right CPM for these, because of their telemetry about start-menu usage. And while Microsoft isn't selling that information, per se, they are giving it to partners who consider running one of those ads.
    - scrollaway 3y ago
      Okay but that’s indirect effects. Telemetry isn’t what’s valuable in your example — the ad is. Everything you do as a company, that creates value, also indirectly helps your ad prices if you start selling ads. That is the Google strategy: they used to deliver immense value with little monetization and now the balance has changed. Having an issue with this with that reasoning is akin to having an issue with a company creating anything of value.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

You’re comparing vscode telemetry with “selling your data”? For real? Do you think the amount of time you spend in the File menu is as monetizable as your search history?

candiddevmike 3y ago

It's quite valuable to vendors who are trying to gauge usage and interest, yes.

scrollaway 3y ago
… what? I don’t even know how to find common ground with such a take. You’re saying vscode telemetry (which can be turned off by the way) is as bad as other data monetization because building a better product is profitable? I hope I completely misunderstood you.
dale_glass 3y ago
It's valuable to Microsoft, but why would anybody else want to pay for data about the usage of a Microsoft product? And why would Microsoft sell it? Like would you want to sell information like "X% of users can't figure out how to change the code formatting settings"? Or if you did learn something cool and useful, why would you sell it to the potential competition?
- adventured 3y ago
  A lot of tech companies would pay for that vast trove of user data. There are possibly no better sources on usage for mass consumer software than what Microsoft has from the past few decades (Office and Windows in particular; the next best would be browsers and or various Apple software). Why would anybody pay for customer traffic/browsing/shopping data for inside of a Walmart store? Nearly every retailer would pay for access to that, assuming the cost is reasonable. Vendors desperately want access to it. Microsoft would be crazy to sell it openly. Its part of their competitive advantage, helping to protect $83 billion in operating income. They'd get tiny particles of revenue in comparison to the gigantic golden egg they're sitting on.
  - dale_glass 3y ago
    Data isn't intrinsically valuable, useful data is. I can't imagine a lot of cases where telemetry would be on sale. On one hand, telemetry is specific to a specific product. Knowing how often people use the File menu in Visual Studio doesn't help me with my own application that much. On the other hand, telemetry is potentially a boon to the competition. Can you imagine if say, the LibreOffice project could buy MS Office telemetry to better decide what features to implement, or just to embarrass Microsoft by revealing how much something crashes? For me, pretty much all telemetry seems to fall into one of those two boxes -- either useless because I'm not working on a clone, or useful and MS would be nuts to sell the info to me because I am working on a clone. > Why would anybody pay for customer traffic/browsing/shopping data for inside of a Walmart store? Nearly every retailer would pay for access to that, assuming the cost is reasonable. Vendors desperately want access to it. But Walmart would be crazy to sell it as-is, because why would they help their competition optimize their store layouts/warehousing? At best, I think Walmart might want to sell a derived service, like a slow trickle of recommendations to improve sales. Not the actual underlying data.
- derefr 3y ago
  You know those preinstalled-but-not-really app ads that are in the Start Menu, for Candy Crush and the like? How much do you think those are worth — what's the right CPM for them? (And yes, these are adspace, with CPM costs — even if you never click+install Candy Crush from the start menu, you're still being reminded of its existence every time you open the start menu, so the impressions are valuable, not just the conversions.) Microsoft knows the right CPM for these, because of their telemetry about start-menu usage. And while Microsoft isn't selling that information, per se, they are giving it to partners who consider running one of those ads.
  - scrollaway 3y ago
    Okay but that’s indirect effects. Telemetry isn’t what’s valuable in your example — the ad is. Everything you do as a company, that creates value, also indirectly helps your ad prices if you start selling ads. That is the Google strategy: they used to deliver immense value with little monetization and now the balance has changed. Having an issue with this with that reasoning is akin to having an issue with a company creating anything of value.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]