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Many people might be shocked with those comparisons - either with or without capital removed - but don't forget that in many cases we are comparing levels of cu

Many people might be shocked with those comparisons - either with or without capital removed - but don't forget that in many cases we are comparing levels of culture thinking we are comparing the economies. Case in point: almost all people who aren't frequent in either country (but don't limit their Russia experience to downtown Moscow), say that Belarus is richer than Russia, while in fact it isn't. It's just a lot more civilised owing to a higher share of European (Catholic) population. Thus much better maintained and cleaner streets, almost no trash, no homeless, less crime, people are better dressed, fewer are fat, everyone is polite and well-behaved, etc., making an impression of wealth even if most people barely make ends meet. I bet comparing England to Mississippi (never been to Mississippi), raises about same feeling.

ttymck 3y ago
I don't follow your reasoning at all. I don't see any connection between the articles contents and your leap to "comparing levels of culture".
demetrius 3y ago
> It's just a lot more civilised owing to a higher share of European (Catholic) population I'd say it's because of the better wealth distribution. Belarus has always fared better in things like Gini index, because while Russia theoretically has a lot of money, that money is more concentrated. Attributing it to "European" and specifically "Catholic" population seems wrong to me. There is nothing inherently "civilised" about Europeans or Catholics. > no homeless I assure you, there is enough homelessness in Belarus. E.g. https://www.belhelcom.org/be/news/byazdomnyya-lyudzi-i-prava-na-zhyllyo-u-belarusi-apublikavany-tematychny-daklad https://www.belhelcom.org/be/news/byazdomnyya-lyudzi-i-prava... https://34mag.net/post/yak-dapamagchy-byazdomnym https://34mag.net/post/yak-dapamagchy-byazdomnym
- anovikov 3y ago
  Yes there are homeless but they are rarely seen at large, almost all are incarcerated or otherwise isolated (psychiatric asylums, LTP, "chemistry", work camp, or at least controlled-residence factory dorms to which they are assigned). Belarus takes right approach on homelessness, in my opinion. >I'd say it's because of the better wealth distribution. Belarus has always fared better in things like Gini index. It is true to say that Belarus has effectively no middle class. But also very little poverty. Just working class and the rich, including very rich, but they don't spend their money in Belarus.
  - demetrius 3y ago
    > almost all are incarcerated > right approach WTF?! Not having home is not a crime. What Łukašenka regime does is immoral, unconstitutional and contrary to human rights.
    - anovikov 3y ago
      My belief about homelessness is that it should be on one hand, legally impossible - that is there shouldn't be a legal way for a person to be left homeless, one has to have an attached liveable residential address and if someone is left without it, someone - not the person themselves - has to go to jail; and on the other hand, if it happened, strictly illegal to the point that the very idea of bumming will instill fear into even the very delinquent fraction of the population. For example, one has an address and if they sell the place, they must have another address matching certain minimum standards to move to first, or the sale can't be executed. The place must be insured. If it is not, insurance is deducted from one's salary and again, it is illegal to not have income - people without official income pay "parasite fee" that covers all that, or they go to jail. So if the building catches fire, you get a new place from insurance company - or if not, someone again goes to jail. If you have a kid and your new family composition does not fit into the minimum housing standards, the government fixes that for you (and yes this will certainly create a lot of abuses, nothing to be done without it. But if you are caught bumming, you go through the system you wish you never found out about. All of that is the case in Belarus and yes, for all the sick stuff Lukashenka does (and even more odd bullshit he says at times), that one is good and should serve as example to the humankind. The idea of "parasite fee" was objected heavily but you see how brilliantly it worked. Seriously, are there really any unemployed? There are none - instead there are people who don't pay taxes working in grey area. Belarusian mentality is a peasant one, anyone who does not work hard can't be a member of society, so it just doesn't happen there. Belarusian NEET? LMAO. It's fair to tax them forcibly in a fixed amount because they otherwise parasite off the good citizen's labour. Negative social outcomes can and should be prevented, but not by pouring money alone - sure money is necessary and Belarus spends a lot on preventing them (for example, majority of the Belarusian industry burns money, but is still there to make sure people in provincial areas have jobs and don't waste their lives drinking). They also require fear. Let's face it: if lower classes could be motivated by greed, they won't be where they are. Fear and coercion are necessary to maintain a healthy society. I lived in Belarus for a long time and although i'm a liberal, i love the country. There are only 3 bad things about it: 1) Climate is an absolute shit, i can't bear it in the winter for more than a week. Especially in the east of it, Hrodna and Brest are a lot more bearable, but still suck. 2) Visa barriers for locals 3) President who behaves like an agricultural version of Trump
- mharig 3y ago
  > There is nothing inherently "civilised" about Europeans or Catholics. Change "civilised" to "domesticated", and you're there.
walmart 3y ago
I come from former USSR as well. Let me tell you, Americans(Mississippians or not) are definitely more civilized than Europeans. Partly it has to do with religiosity and gun ownership. More Americans behave themselves for fear of Jesus' disapproval and/or bullets flying all over the place. Европейцы, конечо, слишком много мнят о себе.

ttymck 3y ago

I don't follow your reasoning at all. I don't see any connection between the articles contents and your leap to "comparing levels of culture".

demetrius 3y ago

> It's just a lot more civilised owing to a higher share of European (Catholic) population I'd say it's because of the better wealth distribution. Belarus has always fared better in things like Gini index, because while Russia theoretically has a lot of money, that money is more concentrated. Attributing it to "European" and specifically "Catholic" population seems wrong to me. There is nothing inherently "civilised" about Europeans or Catholics. > no homeless I assure you, there is enough homelessness in Belarus. E.g. https://www.belhelcom.org/be/news/byazdomnyya-lyudzi-i-prava-na-zhyllyo-u-belarusi-apublikavany-tematychny-daklad https://www.belhelcom.org/be/news/byazdomnyya-lyudzi-i-prava... https://34mag.net/post/yak-dapamagchy-byazdomnym https://34mag.net/post/yak-dapamagchy-byazdomnym

anovikov 3y ago
Yes there are homeless but they are rarely seen at large, almost all are incarcerated or otherwise isolated (psychiatric asylums, LTP, "chemistry", work camp, or at least controlled-residence factory dorms to which they are assigned). Belarus takes right approach on homelessness, in my opinion. >I'd say it's because of the better wealth distribution. Belarus has always fared better in things like Gini index. It is true to say that Belarus has effectively no middle class. But also very little poverty. Just working class and the rich, including very rich, but they don't spend their money in Belarus.
- demetrius 3y ago
  > almost all are incarcerated > right approach WTF?! Not having home is not a crime. What Łukašenka regime does is immoral, unconstitutional and contrary to human rights.
  - anovikov 3y ago
    My belief about homelessness is that it should be on one hand, legally impossible - that is there shouldn't be a legal way for a person to be left homeless, one has to have an attached liveable residential address and if someone is left without it, someone - not the person themselves - has to go to jail; and on the other hand, if it happened, strictly illegal to the point that the very idea of bumming will instill fear into even the very delinquent fraction of the population. For example, one has an address and if they sell the place, they must have another address matching certain minimum standards to move to first, or the sale can't be executed. The place must be insured. If it is not, insurance is deducted from one's salary and again, it is illegal to not have income - people without official income pay "parasite fee" that covers all that, or they go to jail. So if the building catches fire, you get a new place from insurance company - or if not, someone again goes to jail. If you have a kid and your new family composition does not fit into the minimum housing standards, the government fixes that for you (and yes this will certainly create a lot of abuses, nothing to be done without it. But if you are caught bumming, you go through the system you wish you never found out about. All of that is the case in Belarus and yes, for all the sick stuff Lukashenka does (and even more odd bullshit he says at times), that one is good and should serve as example to the humankind. The idea of "parasite fee" was objected heavily but you see how brilliantly it worked. Seriously, are there really any unemployed? There are none - instead there are people who don't pay taxes working in grey area. Belarusian mentality is a peasant one, anyone who does not work hard can't be a member of society, so it just doesn't happen there. Belarusian NEET? LMAO. It's fair to tax them forcibly in a fixed amount because they otherwise parasite off the good citizen's labour. Negative social outcomes can and should be prevented, but not by pouring money alone - sure money is necessary and Belarus spends a lot on preventing them (for example, majority of the Belarusian industry burns money, but is still there to make sure people in provincial areas have jobs and don't waste their lives drinking). They also require fear. Let's face it: if lower classes could be motivated by greed, they won't be where they are. Fear and coercion are necessary to maintain a healthy society. I lived in Belarus for a long time and although i'm a liberal, i love the country. There are only 3 bad things about it: 1) Climate is an absolute shit, i can't bear it in the winter for more than a week. Especially in the east of it, Hrodna and Brest are a lot more bearable, but still suck. 2) Visa barriers for locals 3) President who behaves like an agricultural version of Trump
mharig 3y ago
> There is nothing inherently "civilised" about Europeans or Catholics. Change "civilised" to "domesticated", and you're there.

walmart 3y ago

I come from former USSR as well. Let me tell you, Americans(Mississippians or not) are definitely more civilized than Europeans. Partly it has to do with religiosity and gun ownership. More Americans behave themselves for fear of Jesus' disapproval and/or bullets flying all over the place. Европейцы, конечо, слишком много мнят о себе.