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Would Asahi linux on an apple laptop be the best Linux laptop experience these days for someone who prioritizes fanlessness? It seems the other ARM option is t

Would Asahi linux on an apple laptop be the best Linux laptop experience these days for someone who prioritizes fanlessness? It seems the other ARM option is the ThinkPad X13s, which presumably has lower performance. Anyone have experience running linux on these machines and can compare the experience and hardware compatibility?

jasoneckert 3y ago
I believe so, but I would stick to the M1 models currently as they have a larger set of supported features complete at this time: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support
hbbio 3y ago
I think so, X13s can become extremely hot and are slower. Only things still lacking for single machine use is speakers, microphone and webcam: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support
- bergkvist 3y ago
  Also the ability to connect to external displays is missing - which is a pretty big one.
  - Topgamer7 3y ago
    Although I would bet USB OTG HDMI works
    - fragmede 3y ago
      I bet DisplayLink works.
    - nsonha 3y ago
      wait so external displays work with a type-c to type-c connection?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- est31 3y ago
  Interestingly, for some modern Intel laptops, webcams/microphones aren't supported either, as they use the custom IPU6 protocol.
fweimer 3y ago
Does it have to be a laptop? For desktop systems, there are many more options.
- lijok 3y ago
  Haha, classic
- skykooler 3y ago
  I'm not aware of many fanless desktops outside of specialty systems.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - ftaghn 3y ago
    Most are DIY, anything that is low wattage can be turned fanless if you buy some parts and build it yourself. But OP was daft with his answer. As someone who doesn't like the Apple ecosystem and only uses PC, I can only admit defeat when it comes to power efficiency. There is no way you could make a true fanless system run as well as Apple's efficient SOCs. PC parts that are as powerful generate a lot more heat and even with the best fanless cases and radiators there is only so much you can do to dissipate heat.
    - fweimer 3y ago
      Is it really that bad? When semi-idle (just typing in a browser), turbostat on a i9-10900T system shows values that fluctuate around these values: PkgWatt CorWatt GFXWatt RAMWatt 4.86 3.89 0.15 1.57 2.21 1.40 0.02 1.41 Mostly it's around the second line with the lower values. Of course, when under load, PkgWatt can go up to close to 100W (depending on the system tuning), but if the cooling solution can handle that for a sufficiently long time, is this really a problem? After all, this CPU, while somewhat dated, is not actually slow, especially for multi-threaded workloads.
  - lithiumii 3y ago
zdragnar 3y ago
If you don't mind skimping on speaker quality or, depending on model, screen resolution, I will again recommend lg gram laptops. I never heard the fan on my first, and my second only comes on if it is charging a low battery while on a video call, and even that is quiet compared to the helicopter noise of the last MacBook pro I had through my last employer.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  > even that is quiet compared to the helicopter noise of the last MacBook pro I had through my last employer. It's worth noting that this MBP was almost certainly an Intel model. The new ARM-based Apple laptops rarely have audible fans. This isn't to discount your recommendation, however.
  - tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
    To speak to this: I’ve triggered my 14” M1 Max MacBook Pro fan in two scenarios: Stable Diffusion, and Minecraft. At no point have I heard it run when I’ve been doing Actual Work.
  - happymellon 3y ago
    It did leave me confused why people recommend Mac's, after I had to use them again for work in 2017, replaced with an even worse 2019 edition. The hardware was down the toilet in terms of keyboard quality and heating to uncomfortable temperatures.
    - pixard 3y ago
      I completely understand where you're coming from, I hated my 2019 also. It was quite warm even on idle. If a external display was connected the GPU had a bug where even at idle it used a lot of power and the whole machine was hot hot hot. Any work what so ever would make the fans unpleasantly audible. M1/M2 Macs are in a completely different league. I'm on a 16" M1 Max and it is just a dream from a noise / temperature point of view. The fans _never_ come on during normal web dev work. And the laptop is cold to the touch. I only hear the fans come on during gaming and heavy compiling.
gymbeaux 3y ago
Yes. X13s is less-powerful, has worse battery life, and I think even costs more…
Shawnj2 3y ago
There are also the Windows Qualcomm snapdragon laptops and ARM chromebooks
mazugrin2 3y ago
I think it depends. For me, fanless is super appealing. However, I have a Dell XPS 13 7390 with a i7-10710U where the fan is at 0 RPM most of the time I use it, and that is super satisfying to me. However, during a big compile, the fan does come on, sometimes it comes on at a high speed. But then, within about 30s to 1 minute, it goes back down to 0 RPM. I'm pretty happy with this, even though I love even more the idea of a computer that didn't even need a fan.
- JeremyNT 3y ago
  It's also worth pointing out that you can change the power governor in Linux whenever you want, so if you don't mind the compilation taking longer you can manually just throttle your PC to keep it silent at the cost of performance.
qwytw 3y ago
> seems the other ARM option is the ThinkPad X13s Seems there is a bunch of Windows laptops from Dell, Lenovo and Samsung besides the X13 https://www.qualcomm.com/products/mobile/snapdragon/pcs-and-tablets/laptop-device-finder?Device+Type=6703404&Operating+System=7985890 https://www.qualcomm.com/products/mobile/snapdragon/pcs-and-...
- nsonha 3y ago
  they all have lower specs than M series, the Samsung and Thinkpad ones are the only two that have 16G of RAM. I think Macbooks are objectively superial in this ARM race, for now

jasoneckert 3y ago

I believe so, but I would stick to the M1 models currently as they have a larger set of supported features complete at this time: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support

hbbio 3y ago

I think so, X13s can become extremely hot and are slower. Only things still lacking for single machine use is speakers, microphone and webcam: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support

bergkvist 3y ago
Also the ability to connect to external displays is missing - which is a pretty big one.
- Topgamer7 3y ago
  Although I would bet USB OTG HDMI works
  - fragmede 3y ago
    I bet DisplayLink works.
  - nsonha 3y ago
    wait so external displays work with a type-c to type-c connection?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
est31 3y ago
Interestingly, for some modern Intel laptops, webcams/microphones aren't supported either, as they use the custom IPU6 protocol.

fweimer 3y ago

Does it have to be a laptop? For desktop systems, there are many more options.

lijok 3y ago
Haha, classic
skykooler 3y ago
I'm not aware of many fanless desktops outside of specialty systems.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ftaghn 3y ago
  Most are DIY, anything that is low wattage can be turned fanless if you buy some parts and build it yourself. But OP was daft with his answer. As someone who doesn't like the Apple ecosystem and only uses PC, I can only admit defeat when it comes to power efficiency. There is no way you could make a true fanless system run as well as Apple's efficient SOCs. PC parts that are as powerful generate a lot more heat and even with the best fanless cases and radiators there is only so much you can do to dissipate heat.
  - fweimer 3y ago
    Is it really that bad? When semi-idle (just typing in a browser), turbostat on a i9-10900T system shows values that fluctuate around these values: PkgWatt CorWatt GFXWatt RAMWatt 4.86 3.89 0.15 1.57 2.21 1.40 0.02 1.41 Mostly it's around the second line with the lower values. Of course, when under load, PkgWatt can go up to close to 100W (depending on the system tuning), but if the cooling solution can handle that for a sufficiently long time, is this really a problem? After all, this CPU, while somewhat dated, is not actually slow, especially for multi-threaded workloads.
- lithiumii 3y ago

zdragnar 3y ago

If you don't mind skimping on speaker quality or, depending on model, screen resolution, I will again recommend lg gram laptops. I never heard the fan on my first, and my second only comes on if it is charging a low battery while on a video call, and even that is quiet compared to the helicopter noise of the last MacBook pro I had through my last employer.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago
> even that is quiet compared to the helicopter noise of the last MacBook pro I had through my last employer. It's worth noting that this MBP was almost certainly an Intel model. The new ARM-based Apple laptops rarely have audible fans. This isn't to discount your recommendation, however.
- tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
  To speak to this: I’ve triggered my 14” M1 Max MacBook Pro fan in two scenarios: Stable Diffusion, and Minecraft. At no point have I heard it run when I’ve been doing Actual Work.
- happymellon 3y ago
  It did leave me confused why people recommend Mac's, after I had to use them again for work in 2017, replaced with an even worse 2019 edition. The hardware was down the toilet in terms of keyboard quality and heating to uncomfortable temperatures.
  - pixard 3y ago
    I completely understand where you're coming from, I hated my 2019 also. It was quite warm even on idle. If a external display was connected the GPU had a bug where even at idle it used a lot of power and the whole machine was hot hot hot. Any work what so ever would make the fans unpleasantly audible. M1/M2 Macs are in a completely different league. I'm on a 16" M1 Max and it is just a dream from a noise / temperature point of view. The fans _never_ come on during normal web dev work. And the laptop is cold to the touch. I only hear the fans come on during gaming and heavy compiling.

gymbeaux 3y ago

Yes. X13s is less-powerful, has worse battery life, and I think even costs more…

Shawnj2 3y ago

There are also the Windows Qualcomm snapdragon laptops and ARM chromebooks

mazugrin2 3y ago

I think it depends. For me, fanless is super appealing. However, I have a Dell XPS 13 7390 with a i7-10710U where the fan is at 0 RPM most of the time I use it, and that is super satisfying to me. However, during a big compile, the fan does come on, sometimes it comes on at a high speed. But then, within about 30s to 1 minute, it goes back down to 0 RPM. I'm pretty happy with this, even though I love even more the idea of a computer that didn't even need a fan.

JeremyNT 3y ago
It's also worth pointing out that you can change the power governor in Linux whenever you want, so if you don't mind the compilation taking longer you can manually just throttle your PC to keep it silent at the cost of performance.

qwytw 3y ago

> seems the other ARM option is the ThinkPad X13s Seems there is a bunch of Windows laptops from Dell, Lenovo and Samsung besides the X13 https://www.qualcomm.com/products/mobile/snapdragon/pcs-and-tablets/laptop-device-finder?Device+Type=6703404&Operating+System=7985890 https://www.qualcomm.com/products/mobile/snapdragon/pcs-and-...

nsonha 3y ago
they all have lower specs than M series, the Samsung and Thinkpad ones are the only two that have 16G of RAM. I think Macbooks are objectively superial in this ARM race, for now