13 ms·

A conversation with a newspaper owner raided by cops

324 points by celtoid 3y ago

aa_is_op 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- spoonfeeder006 3y ago
  This country is founded on genocide and mass murder Nothing new here
- Dah00n 3y ago
  That's pure nonsense. Oligarch says something about wealth and maybe how you gained it. That is it. You might as well have said "rich person behaviour". Also, have cruel must one be to take joy in others pain because of what state they are from!
JimtheCoder 3y ago
I eagerly await the post about how the writer on Substack has been raided...
networkchad 3y ago
Ahh small town Kansas. I love you and also hate ya. This kind of bs is one of the reasons why I can’t live there. (Grew up in KS)
- _jal 3y ago
  I won't say "small town anywhere", that's probably not true. But also true of small town Tennessee. "Everybody knew" the sheriff took kickbacks from the bootleggers (it was, and still is, a dry county), and probably quite a bit more. I mean, I knew, and I was a high school kid. He did eventually get busted roughly a decade after I left. Cities have corruption too, of course. But the hypocritical gaslighting nonsense about how pure and clean small town life is horse shit.
- hinkley 3y ago
  There's a handful of stories that lead me to distrust the police, and one of them was about a teenager being sexually harassed by a sheriff's deputy who kept pulling her over for no reason, and a police chief - who ran the DARE program - being a meth drug lord who was arresting his competition. Both were from downstate Missouri. That whole region is fucked up. Did you know the Oklahoma Panhandle was a gift from Texas? The Missouri Compromise basically said no new slave states north of Tennessee and NC, so Texas chopped the top of their territory off and gave it to Oklahoma, which was already about 34 miles to far north.
  - s5300 3y ago
    [dead]
- freeopinion 3y ago
  Because small town Arkansas or Atlanta or Dublin are so much better in this regard? Is there any evidence that such shenanigans are more common in Kansas?
- duxup 3y ago
  It is potentially bad in small town anywhere just dude to the low population, maybe one or no news source and etc. Lots of power in a few hands, little oversight. Small town not far of me there were billboards up about how the local police are crooks and on and on. Someone really felt strongly about that topic. The businessman who bought the billboards did an interview. Story was businessman supported the local police chief's election. Then business man's business partner was being investigated for selling drugs and the state police raided their business. Businessman called the local police police chief and told the chief to call off the cops. Police chief said he couldn't do that because he knew business guy and had to stay out of it. Businessman got upset and bought a bunch of billboards about "corruption". One man's corruption is another man's ethical choice.
- creer 3y ago
  Nothing in there is specific to Kansas, or really small town America. See if you haven't read it yet, the amazing Ferguson Report - extremely concise and readable for a government report - which collected testimony of corruption every which way and concluded with doing nothing and a full trust in the locals sorting it out for themselves. And then again and still higher scale, cities around the San Francisco Bay Area and all the way to San Francisco. The specifics vary greatly and creatively (?) but the overall theme is there.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
lokar 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37096015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37096015
jp57 3y ago
Current title of this post: "Paper investigating police chief prior to the raids on his office and home." But it was the newspaper owner, not the police chief, who was raided. Actual article title and subtitle: "A conversation with the newspaper owner raided by cops / Eric Meyer says his paper had been investigating the police chief prior to the raids on his office and home."
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- TheFreim 3y ago
  > But it was the newspaper owner, not the police chief, who was raided. That's what the title means.
  - halfdan 3y ago
    It’s ambiguous and I also read “him” as the police chief being raided.
    - hinkley 3y ago
      Because 'police chief' is the only potential gendered identifier in the entire title.
  - eis 3y ago
    The title on HN at the current time [0] says the police chief was raided. There is only one person mentioned and therefor "his" can only refer to that person. "His" can not refer to the newspaper. [0] "Paper investigating police chief prior to the raids on his office and home."
    - hinkley 3y ago
      I just clicked on the thread now and it still is listed as mentioned by GP.
    - TheFreim 3y ago
themodelplumber 3y ago
Love the part where a bunch of people subscribed to their news service to show support...including apparently a famous movie producer and screenwriter. Yikes for the chief...he stepped right on top of a cherished American value. That's instant-villain territory. I'm sure even a talented screenwriter wouldn't complain when huge chunks of a story offer to write themselves...
- sixothree 3y ago
  That kind of this only matters if you have shame. And in this age people really don’t care as long as they wield power.
  - r3trohack3r 3y ago
    > And in this age people really don’t care as long as they wield power. At least the _ideal_ was that this was a government by the people for the people. The goal being to align incentives to wield power appropriately. When you misuse your power against the people, the people take away your power.
    - rob74 3y ago
      However, if you manage to convince the people (or at least a significant percentage of the people) that the journalists you are going up against are just peddlers of "fake news", you might get away with it...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
theknocker 3y ago
[dead]
chmod600 3y ago
This story omits the most crucial information: why was the warrant issued? Judges issuing warrants is one of the least accountable aspects of our legal system. Warrants can cause major damage, disruption, or even death. There are never consequences for a mistake (cf. Breonna Taylor incident). They can also cause political interference and there's little mechanism to prevent abuses. The FISA warrants against Carter Page were later declared invalid[1]. Document mishandling sometimes resulted in essentially nothing (Clinton, Biden) and sometimes warrants and raids (Trump). There could be good reasons for all of this but there's not really any mechanism to sort it out. Next time there might not be good reasons, and the target might be a politician we desperately need (rather than Trump).
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Document mishandling sometimes resulted in essentially nothing (Clinton, Biden) and sometimes warrants and raids (Trump). “Document mishandling” (with classified documents) always results in an investigation. When there is overwhelming evidence that the investigation is being actively obstructed, things get spicy.
- sneak 3y ago
  100% of the warrants I have read (all of which were signed and in the process of being executed) had obvious factual errors in them, and all had been made under penalty of perjury by law enforcement. There is no accountability.
- jonnycomputer 3y ago
  I see your point, but bringing in national politics is going to totally derail this conversation, imo.
  - chmod600 3y ago
    For rights discussions you have to consider the exceptional cases, too. If we don't insist on rights for people we think are wrong, then the rights are hollow.
- throw3823423 3y ago
bastardoperator 3y ago
Police in the US are becoming lawless gangs. Abolish qualified immunity. Stop having taxpayers' foot the bill, start using their pension fund and watch police make a 180 degree turn in terms of behavior and professionalism.
- mikem170 3y ago
  That's a neat idea. Too often miscreants face no consequences worse than being suspended for a while, with pay. Something needs to change with Internal Affairs, also. Local police departments are often investigating themselves, with predictable results.
  - Dah00n 3y ago
    But none of this would stick without judge, jury and lawyers colluding, surely? Seems to me the problem isn't the police but is systemic.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- shrubble 3y ago
  There is a 'Bivens claim' but I have no idea how easy it is to use, and whether its scope extends beyond federal police officers... https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bivens_action https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bivens_action
- ghastmaster 3y ago
  Qualified immunity does not protect government employees who break the law. There are laws/rulings that specifically disqualify them from using qualified immunity as a defense. The problem is prosecutors, judges, and juries who allow government employees to commit illegal actions with no consequences. This is furthered by citizens who pay no attention and let these people stay in power.
  - deleted 3y ago
BearhatBeer 3y ago
Just proves anonymous expose and investigation is superior to attaching your name and identity to your muck raking. People will kill you for uncovering their secrets.
SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
Not only was this newspaper reporting on a restaurant owners DUI, it was investigating sexual misconduct by the former police chief!!! This is truly heinous cop-on-a-power-trip shit. We really need to curtail the so called justice system in this country…
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  It's funny how different people can read this and come to different conclusions. When I read this, I think that the system works. The fourth estate (the press) was doing their job and will now bring more scrutiny and possible legal consequences to the police chief.
  - krisoft 3y ago
    > I think that the system works. How is the system working when clearly the newspaper is in a desperate search now for equipment to be able to stay in business after theirs got taken by the police? Don’t you think that is somewhat chilling of free speech? What would be evidence of the system not working in your opinion? The editor washing up with a bullet in their head? All the journalist sentenced to 20 years of hard labour on the private farm of the police chief? The system is clearly not working.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
      > What would be evidence of the system not working in your opinion? The fact we can read about this is evidence that it is working. Evidence that it is not working would be hard to come by because we wouldn't be able to read about it!
      - twirlip 3y ago
        In the age of ubiquitous information sharing, the news of cops raiding a newspaper office is rather not a signal the system is working, than it is a klaxon that the system is failing.
helsinkiandrew 3y ago
> But the allegations—including the identities of who made the allegations—were on one of the computers that got seized. That’s really bad
- hinkley 3y ago
  Maybe reporters should watch more spy movies.
  - Asooka 3y ago
    Quite glib, but I agree in spirit. Reporters need better OPSEC.
vxxzy 3y ago
The chilling affect has me not even wanting to post this excerpt: “People in this town have been very supportive, but not publicly. And I talked to one person who said, “Oh, are you sure It's ok that I can talk to you because they might come and seize my computer?””
KomoD 3y ago
This title is confusing
lolinder 3y ago
From the report this newspaper did when the police chief took office in April: > Cody said two priorities would be transparency and more responsive media relations. That went well. http://marionrecord.com/direct/marion_selects_new_police_chief+5431breaking+4d6172696f6e2073656c65637473206e657720706f6c696365206368696566 http://marionrecord.com/direct/marion_selects_new_police_chi...
miles 3y ago
For those who can support the paper, an annual electronic subscription is just $34.99. The subscription link is buried on the marionrecord.com homepage under "MORE..."; here's a direct link: https://marionrecord.com/credit/subscription:MARION+COUNTY+RECORD https://marionrecord.com/credit/subscription:MARION+COUNTY+R... .
chefandy 3y ago
Know anyone in a small news outlet? Now would be a great time to talk to them about the importance of secure, redundant, off-site backup and archiving. Obviously wouldn't have prevented this— for all I know these folks were doing all of that— but it would mean police in this situation couldn't stop you from accessing your data (and likely, leverage,) even if they controlled your equipment.
- wizzwizz4 3y ago
  > Now would be a great time to talk to them about the importance of secure, redundant, off-site backup and archiving. Also encryption.
koonsolo 3y ago
[flagged]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sparrish 3y ago
"I haven't been able to see enough of the outpouring from the people in this town." That's concerning. Either the town's folk are all 'in' on it or we're only getting one side of this story and they know more about what's going on. I'm withholding judgement until the other shoe drops and we get the full story.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Or they are scared. It's a place where you keep your head down
stevespang 3y ago
[dead]
ylere 3y ago
According to an update posted to the newspapers website [0], the owners mother just died. The police had raided both the newspapers office and their home. In the interview they had mentioned she'd been very stressed out by the raid. [0] http://marionrecord.com/direct/updated_illegal_raids_contribute_to_death_of_newspaper_co_owner+5447raid+555044415445443a20496c6c6567616c20726169647320636f6e7472696275746520746f206465617468206f66206e657773706170657220636f2d6f776e65723c212d2d2d2d3e http://marionrecord.com/direct/updated_illegal_raids_contrib...?
RagnarD 3y ago
It gets "better": https://marionrecord.com/ https://marionrecord.com/ "Illegal raids contribute to death of newspaper co-owner" "Stressed beyond her limits and overwhelmed by hours of shock and grief after illegal police raids on her home and the Marion County Record newspaper office Friday, 98-year-old newspaper co-owner Joan Meyer, otherwise in good health for her age, collapsed Saturday afternoon and died at her home."
tanepiper 3y ago
The co-owner has now died from the stress of it all http://marionrecord.com/direct/updated_illegal_raids_contribute_to_death_of_newspaper_co_owner+5447raid+555044415445443a20496c6c6567616c20726169647320636f6e7472696275746520746f206465617468206f66206e657773706170657220636f2d6f776e65723c212d2d2d2d3e http://marionrecord.com/direct/updated_illegal_raids_contrib...
tehwebguy 3y ago
I’m sure this can be solved by voting!

324 points by celtoid 3y ago

aa_is_op 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
spoonfeeder006 3y ago
This country is founded on genocide and mass murder Nothing new here
Dah00n 3y ago
That's pure nonsense. Oligarch says something about wealth and maybe how you gained it. That is it. You might as well have said "rich person behaviour". Also, have cruel must one be to take joy in others pain because of what state they are from!

JimtheCoder 3y ago

I eagerly await the post about how the writer on Substack has been raided...

networkchad 3y ago

Ahh small town Kansas. I love you and also hate ya. This kind of bs is one of the reasons why I can’t live there. (Grew up in KS)

_jal 3y ago
I won't say "small town anywhere", that's probably not true. But also true of small town Tennessee. "Everybody knew" the sheriff took kickbacks from the bootleggers (it was, and still is, a dry county), and probably quite a bit more. I mean, I knew, and I was a high school kid. He did eventually get busted roughly a decade after I left. Cities have corruption too, of course. But the hypocritical gaslighting nonsense about how pure and clean small town life is horse shit.
hinkley 3y ago
There's a handful of stories that lead me to distrust the police, and one of them was about a teenager being sexually harassed by a sheriff's deputy who kept pulling her over for no reason, and a police chief - who ran the DARE program - being a meth drug lord who was arresting his competition. Both were from downstate Missouri. That whole region is fucked up. Did you know the Oklahoma Panhandle was a gift from Texas? The Missouri Compromise basically said no new slave states north of Tennessee and NC, so Texas chopped the top of their territory off and gave it to Oklahoma, which was already about 34 miles to far north.
- s5300 3y ago
  [dead]
freeopinion 3y ago
Because small town Arkansas or Atlanta or Dublin are so much better in this regard? Is there any evidence that such shenanigans are more common in Kansas?
duxup 3y ago
It is potentially bad in small town anywhere just dude to the low population, maybe one or no news source and etc. Lots of power in a few hands, little oversight. Small town not far of me there were billboards up about how the local police are crooks and on and on. Someone really felt strongly about that topic. The businessman who bought the billboards did an interview. Story was businessman supported the local police chief's election. Then business man's business partner was being investigated for selling drugs and the state police raided their business. Businessman called the local police police chief and told the chief to call off the cops. Police chief said he couldn't do that because he knew business guy and had to stay out of it. Businessman got upset and bought a bunch of billboards about "corruption". One man's corruption is another man's ethical choice.
creer 3y ago
Nothing in there is specific to Kansas, or really small town America. See if you haven't read it yet, the amazing Ferguson Report - extremely concise and readable for a government report - which collected testimony of corruption every which way and concluded with doing nothing and a full trust in the locals sorting it out for themselves. And then again and still higher scale, cities around the San Francisco Bay Area and all the way to San Francisco. The specifics vary greatly and creatively (?) but the overall theme is there.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

lokar 3y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37096015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37096015

jp57 3y ago

Current title of this post: "Paper investigating police chief prior to the raids on his office and home." But it was the newspaper owner, not the police chief, who was raided. Actual article title and subtitle: "A conversation with the newspaper owner raided by cops / Eric Meyer says his paper had been investigating the police chief prior to the raids on his office and home."

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
TheFreim 3y ago
> But it was the newspaper owner, not the police chief, who was raided. That's what the title means.
- halfdan 3y ago
  It’s ambiguous and I also read “him” as the police chief being raided.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    Because 'police chief' is the only potential gendered identifier in the entire title.
- eis 3y ago
  The title on HN at the current time [0] says the police chief was raided. There is only one person mentioned and therefor "his" can only refer to that person. "His" can not refer to the newspaper. [0] "Paper investigating police chief prior to the raids on his office and home."
  - hinkley 3y ago
    I just clicked on the thread now and it still is listed as mentioned by GP.
  - TheFreim 3y ago

themodelplumber 3y ago

Love the part where a bunch of people subscribed to their news service to show support...including apparently a famous movie producer and screenwriter. Yikes for the chief...he stepped right on top of a cherished American value. That's instant-villain territory. I'm sure even a talented screenwriter wouldn't complain when huge chunks of a story offer to write themselves...

sixothree 3y ago
That kind of this only matters if you have shame. And in this age people really don’t care as long as they wield power.
- r3trohack3r 3y ago
  > And in this age people really don’t care as long as they wield power. At least the _ideal_ was that this was a government by the people for the people. The goal being to align incentives to wield power appropriately. When you misuse your power against the people, the people take away your power.
  - rob74 3y ago
    However, if you manage to convince the people (or at least a significant percentage of the people) that the journalists you are going up against are just peddlers of "fake news", you might get away with it...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

theknocker 3y ago

[dead]

chmod600 3y ago

This story omits the most crucial information: why was the warrant issued? Judges issuing warrants is one of the least accountable aspects of our legal system. Warrants can cause major damage, disruption, or even death. There are never consequences for a mistake (cf. Breonna Taylor incident). They can also cause political interference and there's little mechanism to prevent abuses. The FISA warrants against Carter Page were later declared invalid[1]. Document mishandling sometimes resulted in essentially nothing (Clinton, Biden) and sometimes warrants and raids (Trump). There could be good reasons for all of this but there's not really any mechanism to sort it out. Next time there might not be good reasons, and the target might be a politician we desperately need (rather than Trump).

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Document mishandling sometimes resulted in essentially nothing (Clinton, Biden) and sometimes warrants and raids (Trump). “Document mishandling” (with classified documents) always results in an investigation. When there is overwhelming evidence that the investigation is being actively obstructed, things get spicy.
sneak 3y ago
100% of the warrants I have read (all of which were signed and in the process of being executed) had obvious factual errors in them, and all had been made under penalty of perjury by law enforcement. There is no accountability.
jonnycomputer 3y ago
I see your point, but bringing in national politics is going to totally derail this conversation, imo.
- chmod600 3y ago
  For rights discussions you have to consider the exceptional cases, too. If we don't insist on rights for people we think are wrong, then the rights are hollow.
throw3823423 3y ago

bastardoperator 3y ago

Police in the US are becoming lawless gangs. Abolish qualified immunity. Stop having taxpayers' foot the bill, start using their pension fund and watch police make a 180 degree turn in terms of behavior and professionalism.

mikem170 3y ago
That's a neat idea. Too often miscreants face no consequences worse than being suspended for a while, with pay. Something needs to change with Internal Affairs, also. Local police departments are often investigating themselves, with predictable results.
- Dah00n 3y ago
  But none of this would stick without judge, jury and lawyers colluding, surely? Seems to me the problem isn't the police but is systemic.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
shrubble 3y ago
There is a 'Bivens claim' but I have no idea how easy it is to use, and whether its scope extends beyond federal police officers... https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bivens_action https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bivens_action
ghastmaster 3y ago
Qualified immunity does not protect government employees who break the law. There are laws/rulings that specifically disqualify them from using qualified immunity as a defense. The problem is prosecutors, judges, and juries who allow government employees to commit illegal actions with no consequences. This is furthered by citizens who pay no attention and let these people stay in power.
- deleted 3y ago

BearhatBeer 3y ago

Just proves anonymous expose and investigation is superior to attaching your name and identity to your muck raking. People will kill you for uncovering their secrets.

SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago

Not only was this newspaper reporting on a restaurant owners DUI, it was investigating sexual misconduct by the former police chief!!! This is truly heinous cop-on-a-power-trip shit. We really need to curtail the so called justice system in this country…

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
It's funny how different people can read this and come to different conclusions. When I read this, I think that the system works. The fourth estate (the press) was doing their job and will now bring more scrutiny and possible legal consequences to the police chief.
- krisoft 3y ago
  > I think that the system works. How is the system working when clearly the newspaper is in a desperate search now for equipment to be able to stay in business after theirs got taken by the police? Don’t you think that is somewhat chilling of free speech? What would be evidence of the system not working in your opinion? The editor washing up with a bullet in their head? All the journalist sentenced to 20 years of hard labour on the private farm of the police chief? The system is clearly not working.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    > What would be evidence of the system not working in your opinion? The fact we can read about this is evidence that it is working. Evidence that it is not working would be hard to come by because we wouldn't be able to read about it!
    - twirlip 3y ago
      In the age of ubiquitous information sharing, the news of cops raiding a newspaper office is rather not a signal the system is working, than it is a klaxon that the system is failing.

helsinkiandrew 3y ago

> But the allegations—including the identities of who made the allegations—were on one of the computers that got seized. That’s really bad

hinkley 3y ago
Maybe reporters should watch more spy movies.
- Asooka 3y ago
  Quite glib, but I agree in spirit. Reporters need better OPSEC.

vxxzy 3y ago

The chilling affect has me not even wanting to post this excerpt: “People in this town have been very supportive, but not publicly. And I talked to one person who said, “Oh, are you sure It's ok that I can talk to you because they might come and seize my computer?””

KomoD 3y ago

This title is confusing

lolinder 3y ago

From the report this newspaper did when the police chief took office in April: > Cody said two priorities would be transparency and more responsive media relations. That went well. http://marionrecord.com/direct/marion_selects_new_police_chief+5431breaking+4d6172696f6e2073656c65637473206e657720706f6c696365206368696566 http://marionrecord.com/direct/marion_selects_new_police_chi...

miles 3y ago

For those who can support the paper, an annual electronic subscription is just $34.99. The subscription link is buried on the marionrecord.com homepage under "MORE..."; here's a direct link: https://marionrecord.com/credit/subscription:MARION+COUNTY+RECORD https://marionrecord.com/credit/subscription:MARION+COUNTY+R... .

chefandy 3y ago

Know anyone in a small news outlet? Now would be a great time to talk to them about the importance of secure, redundant, off-site backup and archiving. Obviously wouldn't have prevented this— for all I know these folks were doing all of that— but it would mean police in this situation couldn't stop you from accessing your data (and likely, leverage,) even if they controlled your equipment.

wizzwizz4 3y ago
> Now would be a great time to talk to them about the importance of secure, redundant, off-site backup and archiving. Also encryption.

koonsolo 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

sparrish 3y ago

"I haven't been able to see enough of the outpouring from the people in this town." That's concerning. Either the town's folk are all 'in' on it or we're only getting one side of this story and they know more about what's going on. I'm withholding judgement until the other shoe drops and we get the full story.

ipaddr 3y ago
Or they are scared. It's a place where you keep your head down

stevespang 3y ago

[dead]

ylere 3y ago

According to an update posted to the newspapers website [0], the owners mother just died. The police had raided both the newspapers office and their home. In the interview they had mentioned she'd been very stressed out by the raid. [0] http://marionrecord.com/direct/updated_illegal_raids_contribute_to_death_of_newspaper_co_owner+5447raid+555044415445443a20496c6c6567616c20726169647320636f6e7472696275746520746f206465617468206f66206e657773706170657220636f2d6f776e65723c212d2d2d2d3e http://marionrecord.com/direct/updated_illegal_raids_contrib...?

RagnarD 3y ago

It gets "better": https://marionrecord.com/ https://marionrecord.com/ "Illegal raids contribute to death of newspaper co-owner" "Stressed beyond her limits and overwhelmed by hours of shock and grief after illegal police raids on her home and the Marion County Record newspaper office Friday, 98-year-old newspaper co-owner Joan Meyer, otherwise in good health for her age, collapsed Saturday afternoon and died at her home."

tanepiper 3y ago

The co-owner has now died from the stress of it all http://marionrecord.com/direct/updated_illegal_raids_contribute_to_death_of_newspaper_co_owner+5447raid+555044415445443a20496c6c6567616c20726169647320636f6e7472696275746520746f206465617468206f66206e657773706170657220636f2d6f776e65723c212d2d2d2d3e http://marionrecord.com/direct/updated_illegal_raids_contrib...

tehwebguy 3y ago

I’m sure this can be solved by voting!