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>I wonder how they did their selections. They published their methodology, the metrics driving discontinuation of programs and specialties were: - Enrollment

>I wonder how they did their selections. They published their methodology, the metrics driving discontinuation of programs and specialties were: - Enrollment in the major/program (as of Fall 2022) - Enrollment trends in the major/program over a five-year period (Fall 2018-Fall 2022) The metrics for reducing headcount were: - Student credit hour (SCH) production trend from AY 2020 to AY 2022 - Full-time faculty headcount and trend from 2020 to 2022 - Full-time faculty-to-student ratio - Net tuition revenue trends over 2020-2022 (Tuition revenue, based on SCH production, minus expenses) - Total unrestricted expenses trend from 2020-2022 - Net financial position and trend from 2020-2022 Exceptions were made for: - R1 research contributions - Doctoral programs and associated non-terminal master’s programs within a unit that has annual (FY 2022) external research expenditures of $1 million are exempted from review. - State priority program (land-grant mission) - Areas of distinction/differentiation

matwood 3y ago
Enrollment overall sounds like the issue, which may be tied to WV population demographics. I don't know how many people are moving to WV to go to college, but the population of WV continues to shrink year over year.
- Thlom 3y ago
  Do we know why? I've never been there, but Charleston looks like a cosy city and there's lots of classic small american towns around and the nature looks amazing. Have they just not been able to develop any new industry after coal mining collapsed?
  - RhysU 3y ago
    As someone brought up in Appalachia with family who made good money via coal mining, I believe the phrase is "...after coal mining was killed" [1]. [1] https://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-papers/obamas-war-on-coal https://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-papers/obamas-war-on-coal which is a partisan source but the opposite side made no bones about what they were doing.
    - ke88y 3y ago
      The decline of coal was hastened by public policy, but was inevitable. Also, other parts of Appalachia haven’t met West Virginia’s fate because the states successfully diversified their economies and don’t rely as heavily on extractive industries. West Virginia’s issue — as a state - is a deep seated cultural unwillingness to adapt or change. The decline of goal is the trigger, not the problem.
      - RhysU 3y ago
        If I defenestrate a frail 80-year-old that they were eventually going to die naturally is not a murder defense. If a robust 80-year-old lived next to the frail one it is also not a murder defense. If the frail one was a stubborn old mule it is likewise not a murder defense. Maybe the neighborhood is better without the dead one, but that doesn't change that they were murdered.
        stoolpigeon 3y ago
        Getting rid of an industry that literally is killing people world wide is not the same as killing a person. It's the opposite, it is saving lives.
        RhysU 3y ago
        I am not arguing about any greater good. Killing is killing. My favorite joke here (SMBC?) is that the robbers that killed Batman's 2 parents did not save N-2 people because Batman saved N people.
        stoolpigeon 3y ago
        You keep equating killing an industry with killing people - this is a false comparison. Ending the use of coal saves human lives and does not take any human lives. The batman comparison is irrelevant. No longer using asbestos saved lives and didn't take lives. Removing lead from consumer products saves lives and didn't take lives. I'm sure you there were people in the asbestos industry who weren't happy about the change and they would have gladly gone on giving people cancer. Just like people in the coal industry still bemoan the fact they can't keep killing as many people.
  - torstenvl 3y ago
    WV basically has two things going for it: coal and natural beauty. And the tourism industry isn't enough to support a whole state. So people are leaving quite a bit. A lot of people coming in, including myself, are not full time residents. Some of them are retirees from northern Virginia looking for a lower cost of living. Some just prefer rural life with a more live-and-let-live vibe. But almost nobody is moving out here to raise kids who will go to college here. For the small number who do raise college-bound kids here, a fair number of them will gladly take a lower ranked school to be closer to the city, e.g., University of Richmond.
    - pirate787 3y ago
      Tourism is enough to support the state if it is combined with amenities that attract year-round residents -- especially remote workers. The problem with WV is a pervasive culture of corruption among its elites.
      - panzagl 3y ago
        > The problem with WV is a pervasive culture of corruption among its elites. As compared to where? Senator Byrd did a lot to bring federal programs to WV- the FBI, astronomy, interstates, various DoD, I don't think anyone has replaced his influence for the state.
      - BoxFour 3y ago
        > Tourism is enough to support the state if it is combined with amenities that attract year-round residents -- especially remote workers. Tourism and amenities for remote workers don't come across as a universal remedy for addressing the challenges of West Virginia. While certain areas are undoubtedly picturesque and the cost of living might be low, similar sentiments apply to Montana, the Carolinas, Maine, and so on. Truth be told there are many such areas in the majority of states that have similar natural beauty and low cost of living (barring a handful of distinct cases). What specific beneficial attributes does West Virginia possess that set it apart from other states?
    - paulmd 3y ago
      Politically this is the classic “rotten borough/pocket borough” problem in a nutshell though. People move away, and you are left with a seat controlled by a ridiculously small number of people who nevertheless control a constitutionally-allocated location. In the UK this got down to some districts having literally single-resident or single-family districts. And it’s super easy to influence the residents when there’s a single master who controls the borough… kinda like coal in WV. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotten_and_pocket_boroughs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotten_and_pocket_boroughs
  - nonameiguess 3y ago
    The nature is nice. Harper's Ferry is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been in my life. But it's not much nicer than any other Blue Ridge state all the way down to Tennessee and Georgia. Meanwhile, the town life, at least as of 20 years ago, is desolate. My best friend from college grew up in West Virginia, and I spent a week with him there before he moved to LA to become a television writer back in 2001. I don't know that I've seen a place more falling apart. Houses collapsed, abandoned. Weird paint splotches that looked like blood stains on houses that were still occupied. Every single lawn had a Camaro body with no engine and no tires propped up on cinder blocks. Other than coal mining, the only employer in this guy's town, which is where he worked, was some kind of direct mailing marketing operation that paid minimum wage. The only upside, if you're truly poor, is you could rent a reasonable sized place for $100 a month.
  - eitally 3y ago
    I grew up in semi-rural Virginia and recently watched Peter Santenello's Appalachia[1] series on YT. The reality is that WV is nearly entirely rural (like Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas), but there's little oil or gas to backfill the coal, and it's absolutely not flat enough (and is almost entirely forested) for either meaningful factory/ranch farming or much else. It doesn't benefit from interstate commerce and there's no river running through it, either. Beyond all the topographical/geographical challenges, the cities are shells of their former selves, and since both the educational attainment and financial independence of West Virginians is low, the potential for breaking out of this death spiral seems low. All that ... and then add the fact that WV is perhaps the worst hit state by the opioid crisis. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9lSZlDJAC0&list=PLEyPgwIPkHo5If6xyrkr-s2I6yz23o0av https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9lSZlDJAC0&list=PLEyPgwIPkH... Tons of natural beauty and I think the state should continue investing in tourism along the lines of what Tennessee has done for decades with the Smokies.
    - jwells89 3y ago
      My hometown is in semi-rural WV as well, and this is all true. Furthermore, because the lack of opportunity and things for young people to occupy themselves with, many young people with means (and many who don’t, via college loans) move elsewhere to build a life for themselves. I did, because if I hadn’t the path ahead of me had a ceiling I’d hit by my late 20s or early 30s. This contributes to the cycle of decay that much more. Fewer young people → shrinking working population → no interest from employers → no jobs. And the opioid cross has made it all that much worse. It’s sad. My hometown wasn’t exactly bustling when I was a kid in the 90s, but it still had some life to it. Now it’s barely hanging on.
      - xemdetia 3y ago
        This is part of what I hoped would evolve as part of the full remote pandemic stuff. I left my home area because it was obvious my salary ceiling would be about a third of what I am making now, and I still have room to grow where I am where I would otherwise be stuck. With full remote it would have been possible to at least move back home, but attitudes seem to have shifted for the worse in a lot of cases so being within an hour commute of a tech hub (US) is the only way to get the salary parity.
  - kalverra 3y ago
    As a WVU grad who grew up there: ya, pretty much. Outside of some select towns and cities, WV is poor as shit, and it's only getting worse. Lots of abandoned towns, homelessness, and very few jobs. Even when coal mining was big, it wasn't exactly a thriving area. The movie October Sky is a great rendition of what it was like in the 50s, the coal company owned everything, and was the only source for anyone's income. Now imagine that 70 years later with all the coal companies gone, and tons of painkillers. Its a very sad state, anyone I knew with half a brain who grew up there wanted nothing but to leave. Even those in good situations were all looking to move far away after college.
- morelisp 3y ago
  Closing a major university will surely be a good route to convince the brightest to stay.
hnburnsy 3y ago
Should career/job prospects and impact to the WV economy also be part of the criteria?

matwood 3y ago

Enrollment overall sounds like the issue, which may be tied to WV population demographics. I don't know how many people are moving to WV to go to college, but the population of WV continues to shrink year over year.

Thlom 3y ago
Do we know why? I've never been there, but Charleston looks like a cosy city and there's lots of classic small american towns around and the nature looks amazing. Have they just not been able to develop any new industry after coal mining collapsed?
- RhysU 3y ago
  As someone brought up in Appalachia with family who made good money via coal mining, I believe the phrase is "...after coal mining was killed" [1]. [1] https://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-papers/obamas-war-on-coal https://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-papers/obamas-war-on-coal which is a partisan source but the opposite side made no bones about what they were doing.
  - ke88y 3y ago
    The decline of coal was hastened by public policy, but was inevitable. Also, other parts of Appalachia haven’t met West Virginia’s fate because the states successfully diversified their economies and don’t rely as heavily on extractive industries. West Virginia’s issue — as a state - is a deep seated cultural unwillingness to adapt or change. The decline of goal is the trigger, not the problem.
    - RhysU 3y ago
      If I defenestrate a frail 80-year-old that they were eventually going to die naturally is not a murder defense. If a robust 80-year-old lived next to the frail one it is also not a murder defense. If the frail one was a stubborn old mule it is likewise not a murder defense. Maybe the neighborhood is better without the dead one, but that doesn't change that they were murdered.
      - stoolpigeon 3y ago
        Getting rid of an industry that literally is killing people world wide is not the same as killing a person. It's the opposite, it is saving lives.
        RhysU 3y ago
        I am not arguing about any greater good. Killing is killing. My favorite joke here (SMBC?) is that the robbers that killed Batman's 2 parents did not save N-2 people because Batman saved N people.
        stoolpigeon 3y ago
        You keep equating killing an industry with killing people - this is a false comparison. Ending the use of coal saves human lives and does not take any human lives. The batman comparison is irrelevant. No longer using asbestos saved lives and didn't take lives. Removing lead from consumer products saves lives and didn't take lives. I'm sure you there were people in the asbestos industry who weren't happy about the change and they would have gladly gone on giving people cancer. Just like people in the coal industry still bemoan the fact they can't keep killing as many people.
- torstenvl 3y ago
  WV basically has two things going for it: coal and natural beauty. And the tourism industry isn't enough to support a whole state. So people are leaving quite a bit. A lot of people coming in, including myself, are not full time residents. Some of them are retirees from northern Virginia looking for a lower cost of living. Some just prefer rural life with a more live-and-let-live vibe. But almost nobody is moving out here to raise kids who will go to college here. For the small number who do raise college-bound kids here, a fair number of them will gladly take a lower ranked school to be closer to the city, e.g., University of Richmond.
  - pirate787 3y ago
    Tourism is enough to support the state if it is combined with amenities that attract year-round residents -- especially remote workers. The problem with WV is a pervasive culture of corruption among its elites.
    - panzagl 3y ago
      > The problem with WV is a pervasive culture of corruption among its elites. As compared to where? Senator Byrd did a lot to bring federal programs to WV- the FBI, astronomy, interstates, various DoD, I don't think anyone has replaced his influence for the state.
    - BoxFour 3y ago
      > Tourism is enough to support the state if it is combined with amenities that attract year-round residents -- especially remote workers. Tourism and amenities for remote workers don't come across as a universal remedy for addressing the challenges of West Virginia. While certain areas are undoubtedly picturesque and the cost of living might be low, similar sentiments apply to Montana, the Carolinas, Maine, and so on. Truth be told there are many such areas in the majority of states that have similar natural beauty and low cost of living (barring a handful of distinct cases). What specific beneficial attributes does West Virginia possess that set it apart from other states?
  - paulmd 3y ago
    Politically this is the classic “rotten borough/pocket borough” problem in a nutshell though. People move away, and you are left with a seat controlled by a ridiculously small number of people who nevertheless control a constitutionally-allocated location. In the UK this got down to some districts having literally single-resident or single-family districts. And it’s super easy to influence the residents when there’s a single master who controls the borough… kinda like coal in WV. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotten_and_pocket_boroughs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotten_and_pocket_boroughs
- nonameiguess 3y ago
  The nature is nice. Harper's Ferry is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been in my life. But it's not much nicer than any other Blue Ridge state all the way down to Tennessee and Georgia. Meanwhile, the town life, at least as of 20 years ago, is desolate. My best friend from college grew up in West Virginia, and I spent a week with him there before he moved to LA to become a television writer back in 2001. I don't know that I've seen a place more falling apart. Houses collapsed, abandoned. Weird paint splotches that looked like blood stains on houses that were still occupied. Every single lawn had a Camaro body with no engine and no tires propped up on cinder blocks. Other than coal mining, the only employer in this guy's town, which is where he worked, was some kind of direct mailing marketing operation that paid minimum wage. The only upside, if you're truly poor, is you could rent a reasonable sized place for $100 a month.
- eitally 3y ago
  I grew up in semi-rural Virginia and recently watched Peter Santenello's Appalachia[1] series on YT. The reality is that WV is nearly entirely rural (like Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas), but there's little oil or gas to backfill the coal, and it's absolutely not flat enough (and is almost entirely forested) for either meaningful factory/ranch farming or much else. It doesn't benefit from interstate commerce and there's no river running through it, either. Beyond all the topographical/geographical challenges, the cities are shells of their former selves, and since both the educational attainment and financial independence of West Virginians is low, the potential for breaking out of this death spiral seems low. All that ... and then add the fact that WV is perhaps the worst hit state by the opioid crisis. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9lSZlDJAC0&list=PLEyPgwIPkHo5If6xyrkr-s2I6yz23o0av https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9lSZlDJAC0&list=PLEyPgwIPkH... Tons of natural beauty and I think the state should continue investing in tourism along the lines of what Tennessee has done for decades with the Smokies.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    My hometown is in semi-rural WV as well, and this is all true. Furthermore, because the lack of opportunity and things for young people to occupy themselves with, many young people with means (and many who don’t, via college loans) move elsewhere to build a life for themselves. I did, because if I hadn’t the path ahead of me had a ceiling I’d hit by my late 20s or early 30s. This contributes to the cycle of decay that much more. Fewer young people → shrinking working population → no interest from employers → no jobs. And the opioid cross has made it all that much worse. It’s sad. My hometown wasn’t exactly bustling when I was a kid in the 90s, but it still had some life to it. Now it’s barely hanging on.
    - xemdetia 3y ago
      This is part of what I hoped would evolve as part of the full remote pandemic stuff. I left my home area because it was obvious my salary ceiling would be about a third of what I am making now, and I still have room to grow where I am where I would otherwise be stuck. With full remote it would have been possible to at least move back home, but attitudes seem to have shifted for the worse in a lot of cases so being within an hour commute of a tech hub (US) is the only way to get the salary parity.
- kalverra 3y ago
  As a WVU grad who grew up there: ya, pretty much. Outside of some select towns and cities, WV is poor as shit, and it's only getting worse. Lots of abandoned towns, homelessness, and very few jobs. Even when coal mining was big, it wasn't exactly a thriving area. The movie October Sky is a great rendition of what it was like in the 50s, the coal company owned everything, and was the only source for anyone's income. Now imagine that 70 years later with all the coal companies gone, and tons of painkillers. Its a very sad state, anyone I knew with half a brain who grew up there wanted nothing but to leave. Even those in good situations were all looking to move far away after college.
morelisp 3y ago
Closing a major university will surely be a good route to convince the brightest to stay.

hnburnsy 3y ago

Should career/job prospects and impact to the WV economy also be part of the criteria?