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Fourteen days across the Atlantic, perched on a ship’s rudder
- veave 3y agoSo they enter the country ilegally and... get to stay? Am I missing something?
- MattPalmer1086 3y agoIt's not stated in the BBC article, but other news sources say the ones who did not return applied for asylum.
- itsoktocry 3y agoYou may have missed the part where dirt poor people risked their lives to reach somewhere better. Why not give them a chance? What is there to gain from sending them back? Excuse the pun, but "discouraging more migrants", that ship has sailed.
- veave 3y agoI don't see why a stupid stunt like this should give you a right to bypass immigration laws. Anyway I was just curious.
- itsoktocry 3y agoIt's called compassion. I agree it's stupid. But how do you look at someone who did this and send them back to where they came from, the place they were so desperate to leave?
- rejectfinite 3y ago[flagged]
- KetoManx64 3y agoAs a compassionate person, why don't you pay for people to immigrate over legally and then pay for their bills until they get settled in and find a job? Why do we all have to be forced to pay for your compassion through our taxes?
- wildrhythms 3y agoWhy is your immediate assumption that immigrants cannot work and support themselves and their families just like natural born citizens?
- constantcrying 3y agoStatistics. The refugee crisis happened in 2016 still 50% of Syrians are payed for by the state.
- fallingknife 3y agoDenmark did a study where they found that immigrants from poor countries are a drain on public finances for almost their entire lives and I have no reason to believe it would be different elsewhere. https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-turned-against-immigration https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-t... (disable JS to bypass paywall)
- op00to 3y agoBecause we are rich and can afford it. Because bringing more people to our country that needs labor will keep the economy churning. Because your ancestors got here somehow.
- constantcrying 3y agoNo european country is in need for unskilled labor. Especially if that unskilled "labour" just gets on welfare, because working for minimum wage in a western country is really stupid.
- wwtrv 3y ago
- pknomad 3y agoDamned if you do, damned if you don't. I understand why one wouldn't want to accept them despite their predicament; these stowaways are generally unskilled and don't speak the language of their host country. There's social integration and investment to consider and inviting even one sets a precedence for others to follow.
- wwtrv 3y ago> It's called compassion So you're fine if by doing this you encourage another N people to try and do the same and a non insignificant proportion are guaranteed to die while trying?
- casparvitch 3y agoYou say stupid stunt, they say an attempt at finding a better life.
- elxx 3y agoSeeking asylum does not "bypass immigration laws". The right to do so is enshrined in those laws.
- rejectfinite 3y agoAnd if denied, they get sent back, as it should be. To you below https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/15priu2/germany_rejects_over_30000_iraqi_asylum_seekers/ https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/15priu2/germany_... :) As it should be.
- constantcrying 3y ago> And if denied, they get sent back, as it should be. I don't know aboit Brazil. But in Europe that usually does not happen.
- olddustytrail 3y agoYou don't know about Europe either.
- constantcrying 3y agoI live in Germany.
- olddustytrail 3y agoMy point remains.
- refurb 3y agoSweden rejects thousands of asylum cases each year. https://www.statista.com/statistics/697824/rejected-asylum-applications-in-sweden/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/697824/rejected-asylum-a...
- fallingknife 3y agoWell if X is the number of dirt poor people willing to risk their lives, and Y is the number of unskilled immigrants you can reasonably accept, then if X > Y, this is an incredibly stupid policy.
- wwtrv 3y agoWhy would you accept any unskilled immigrants as long as there are more than plenty higher skilled immigrants who want to enter you country? > this is an incredibly stupid policy. Encouraging people to risk their lives to enter a country illegally (by giving them an impression that they'll be allowed to stay) instead of having a transparent and clearly defined process which would allow people to immigrate legally is an incredibly stupid (and cruel) policy.
- rejectfinite 3y ago>Why not give them a chance? Why should we?
- secondcoming 3y agoWouldn't this encourage others to take the same risk? Not all will succeed. It'd become some sadistic Hunger Games-esque style of immigration control.
- constantcrying 3y agoSee what is happening on the Mediterranean. Again and again people are dying because they are baited to make extremely risky crossings.
- arrowsmith 3y agoAlso see what happened in Australia: the government took a hard-line approach to the boats and sent a clear message that those who arrived illegally would be deported. So the boats stopped coming, saving countless lives.
- secondcoming 3y agoI'm well aware of what's happening in the Med, and in the English Channel. The latter is even more perplexing. People are risking their lives to leave a safe country, France, to get into the UK. Until recently, most of those making the asylum boat journey from France to the UK, were actually from Albania. They were being sent over to work in gangs involved in drug and human trafficking. It's all coordinated.
- qwytw 3y agoI wonder how could any semi rational person downvote this comment? Why would you think outsourcing your immigration policy to people's smugglers could ever be a good idea? Forcing people to risk their lives by giving them the impression that they will be allowed to stay if they give up all of their (and possibly their extended family's saving to people smugglers who are just likely to literally sell them so slavery) just seems extremely cruel..
- zirgs 3y agoIf the best and brightest people leave the country - how is it going to improve?
- doctor_eval 3y agoThey send most of the money they earn back home.
- zirgs 3y agoIf a skilled surgeon leaves Nigeria and migrates to Europe or the USA - their hometown is now worse off, because they lost a good specialist and access to healthcare now became worse. And whatever remittances that person sends back home don't offset this. Rich Western countries poaching skilled workers from poor countries make those countries even poorer.
- doctor_eval 3y agoWell, maybe. Or maybe, they send home enough money to open a clinic, or to fund critical health services that help even more people. There is nothing straightforward about any of this stuff.
- wwtrv 3y ago> the best and brightest people leave the country There are significantly easier way for them to do that already than hitchhiking on a cargo ship's rudder.
- wwtrv 3y ago> Why not give them a chance? So survival of the fittest? You only get a chance if you're brave enough to risk your life by crossing an ocean on top of a rudder or a non sea-worth dinghy/overcrowded boat? Seems like a very cruel and inhumane policy...
- constantcrying 3y agoBaiting people to risk their lives on idiotic trips for a chance to become a welfare recipient is the standard migration policy of most western/western aligned countries. Much more prominent on the Mediterranean though. Governments set up schemes where everyone who manages to enter the country gets free money/housing/food, but, after having invited billions of people in that way, set up no actual routes to enter their countries. Leaving the creation of the routes to human trafficers and NGOs for extremely dangerous trips across the Mediterranean.
- op00to 3y agoProof required that people make these trips to become “welfare recipients”. Sounds like a “just so” story to me.
- constantcrying 3y ago>Proof required that people make these trips to become “welfare recipients”. Over 50% of Syrians who have come to Germany are welfare recipients, the migrant crisis came in 2016. I also do not get why anyone in Germany would work minimum wage, seems really dumb. You can just get the state to pay for everything.
- fallingknife 3y agohere you go: https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-turned-against-immigration https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-t... (disable JS to bypass paywall)
- qwytw 3y agoIt's a fact that allowing people who came to your country illegally is encouraging more people to risk their lives doing the same. For every 1000 of people who get to stay a significant proportion drown in the Mediterranean, end up being slaves in North Africa, are outright murder or die due to other reason while try to take this extremely dangerous trip. Supporting a system like this just because you can ignore the people who didn't make seems quite perverse?
- 3y ago
- op00to 3y agoNo, they entered the country legally as asylum seekers.
- resolutebat 3y agoFor me the weirdest detail in the story was the casual mention of the two makeshift hammocks that were already rigged up when they arrived. How many people have tried this before, and what happened to the last people who tried? In any case, looks like this is the maritime version of the airplane wheel-well stowaway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel-well_stowaway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel-well_stowaway
- Aachen 3y agoI can't figure out how they attached the hammock. Looked up some more images online of rudders with stowaways but I don't see no net nor a place to attach besides the steering hinge thing (so you could attach a rope there, but where goes the second attach point?)
- etrautmann 3y agoSome epoxy putty and a hook with a flat flange could make a viable hammock attachment in about 15 min.
- TheSpiceIsLife 3y agoSacrificial anodes, zinc blocks cast on to a steel bar which are then welded to the hull. But those are usually submerged full time.
- blamazon 3y agoOne idea: It is possible to 'stick weld' with a car battery(ies).
- acadapter 3y agoThe situation today with different travel capabilities for holders of different passports is somewhat like apartheid. Our generation deserves to be described badly by future generations, for the issues we systematically ignore.
- resolutebat 3y agoYou are not incorrect, but it's not quite that simple: you can travel just fine with the worst passport in the world, as long as you can smooth things over with lots of money.
- devoutsalsa 3y agoAnd a lot of patience for visa approvals.
- c2h5oh 3y agoMost countries have investor visas or something similar that not only grants you entry but also residency
- TheSpiceIsLife 3y agoAU$2.5 million will get you and immediate family members in to Australia for 5 years and possibly permanently. https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/business-innovation-and-investment-188/investor-stream https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-li...
- dathos 3y agoI mean it is that simple then, if you are from a different country and not wealthy you have no chance.
- rejectfinite 3y agoNot that simple. "today", what do you mean "today"? Passports have been a thing for a long time.
- rejectfinite 3y ago[flagged]
- ethanbond 3y agoConveniently full right after you arrived, I take it?
- wittenbunk 3y agoI bet you don't mind European immigrants.... Why? Are you allergic to melanin?
- danpalmer 3y agoIf they were indeed seeking asylum as stated in some of the coverage of this, please remember that seeking asylum is a right under the UN declaration on human rights, and is very different to "illegal immigration".
- carlosjobim 3y agoYes, one group wants as little to do with the government as possible and one group wants as much as possible to do with the government.
- tjrgergw 3y agoWait, wasn't Friday also the name of one of the characters in Robinson Crusoe? EDIT: yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_(Robinson_Crusoe) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_(Robinson_Crusoe)
- iguana_lawyer 3y agoAmericans commenting on this need to keep in mind that they could become refugees if there is an American civil war. It’s easy to judge others until you lose your home and all your possessions.
- arrowsmith 3y agoI'm not surprised that this thread immediately devolved into a flamewar about the politics of illegal immigration, but can we take a step back and acknowledge what an incredible survival story this is? These men survived fourteen days clinging to the rudder of a ship as it crossed an entire ocean. I can't imagine how difficult, unpleasant and horrifying an experience that would be. And I doubt that, if I'd been in that situation, I'd have made it through alive. What an unbelievable story.
- iainmerrick 3y agoTotally! That’s why I thought it was worth posting. (Sorry for the flamewar, inevitable in hindsight.) It’s just astonishing that a journey like that is possible at all.
- RickJWagner 3y agoAn excellent comment, and I'm glad it's the top one. This really was an incredible journey. I hope each of the men goes on to prosper and have families-- what a story to tell!