4 ms·

Colleges of the humanities may need to completely separate themselves from universities. The bloat of college tuition simply makes those fields of study unecono

Colleges of the humanities may need to completely separate themselves from universities. The bloat of college tuition simply makes those fields of study uneconomical on a fundamental level, and it is only getting worse. Choose, be in debt for most of the cost of a new house on graduation with no employment prospects, or major in something more focused? Yeah. The professors of these programs are generally all old and simply riding out tenure to retirement, just like all boomers. And what will happen when they retire? I predict there won't be tenured professors in huge swathes of humanities, just adjuncts ... everywhere. Basically, TAs for whatever classes the revenue majors demand for at least SOME depth. You may need to have entirely new institutions form around humanities without labs, housing, football stadiums, etc. Maybe they are adjacent/satellite to the main institutions. A throwback to basically what higher education used to be without the Oxford look. Basically, small cloister of students. And good lord, eliminate ALL the goddamn vampire management. Really, the professors will need it for getting any decent salary. Get rid of all those useless middle managers. Contract out teaching humanities to the big-fish university they are nearby. And is this the hallmark of the breaking point of universities? I roll my eyes at humanities as much as another science guy, but they are still a living core of real higher education. Hollowing out humanities means the soul of a college is dead. It's just a bunch of grade-seeking premeds, MBAs, etc. What does humanities need? A classroom, a blackboard, chalk. Even a big library isn't that necessary with internet resources.

slt2021 3y ago
> What does humanities need? an LLM model soon (if not already) will be enough to provide humanities education. I am not sure humanities research will even survive
- ngetchell 3y ago
  AI will never replace in-person instruction. If I pay to learn something, it needs to be from an expert, not from a computer that needs guardrails to prevent it from becoming a Nazi.
  - slt2021 3y ago
    "humanities experts" probably exist only at top tier (ivy league and top state) colleges, but the rest of colleges - I have very bad news about the level of their expertise. They are seriously no better than llm
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  An LLM model is as useful in this regard, as Wikipedia could be. Seriously, can’t wait for this LLM craze to wind down.
  - slt2021 3y ago
    the progress around LLMs continues at incredible speed every day, while humanities as a field has been stuck at the same place for century+. I am betting on LLM against "humanities"
flangola7 3y ago
Which is horrible, humanities are needed now more than ever. I am unable to count the number of tech and business grads who have no appreciation for ethics, or art, or community.
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  > humanities are needed now more than ever Please elaborate
- robocat 3y ago
  So humanities are the only true moral compass for ethics and community. You seem to imply that tech and business grads are just evil.
  - DocTomoe 3y ago
    The older I get, the more I would agree with that statement. Tech and business grads without a classical humanities side-education tend to become the worst people, hyperspecializinh on things that maximise profits at the cost of human suffering and environmental destruction.
    - ryan93 3y ago
      How do people not understand selection? Regardless think of all the world’s warmongers. Almost none were engineers. All the colonizers were humanities guys. Hitler and his top guys were art and humanities guys. Every president who bombs the innocent has been a history or poli sci major.
      - pessimizer 3y ago
        Thatcher?
        ryan93 3y ago
        Thatcher on the one hand Nazis and centuries of colonization on the other. I’ll take it
mkl 3y ago
> The professors of these programs are generally all old and simply riding out tenure to retirement Reality begs to differ: https://worldlanguages.wvu.edu/faculty-staff https://worldlanguages.wvu.edu/faculty-staff (for posterity: https://web.archive.org/web/20230519180815/https://worldlanguages.wvu.edu/faculty-staff https://web.archive.org/web/20230519180815/https://worldlang...). > I roll my eyes at humanities as much as another science guy Speak for yourself.
- grogenaut 3y ago
  What are you taking from these photos? That they're not tenured? They're all young and not riding it out to retirement? Several of themn look to all have been copied over from a previous version of wordpress in sept 2021 so they're many are at least 2 years old. Speaking from photos at a big company, a large number of people who are senior folks have college looking photos and they're entering their 60s. My point being I'm not sure what you can tell from those photos.
bigbillheck 3y ago
> I roll my eyes at humanities as much as another science guy Sounds like an opportunity for self-improvement.
kstrauser 3y ago
I don’t want to live in a world without art. Neither do I want to work in software at a company where the engineers are designing user interfaces or writing the marketing docs.
- Firmwarrior 3y ago
  A world without art? There’d still be plenty of art even if we didn’t saddle gullible teenagers with lifelong unserviceable debt to fund the study of art
commonlisp94 3y ago
It's actually the other way around. Universities were originally for humanities, and science and engineering got attached. Maybe we just need separate engineering schools.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  I completely agree, which is part of why I wonder if a reset is needed. The science and engineering produce the money in the economy, and the MBAs that flocked to universities in the last decades have started beancounting to only that stuff. Humanities, despite my little crack at them, are unquestionably the heart and soul of the institutions/foundations of higher learning of the last 2000+ years. The fact that the university system is being so thoroughly disrupted over the course of just 20-30 years is really appalling. Let me double down with something: the heart of the value proposition for college to employers (well, before AI) was the stratification and demonstration of intellectual labor ability. Humanities may not have as many direct employment skills as some of the sciences do, but it still has a lot of value hiring a philo major from Yale versus a Sociology major from Arizona State University. So the humanities needs to form new associations with the exclusivity, without their tuition revenues being siphoned off to vanity buildings, administrator/MBA salaries, etc. If you can offer "good college" hiring value / eliteness of degree but at half cost tuition to the students, you would have a HUGE value proposition. It's always taken a long time to build up the exclusivity. If one could "hack" an institute of higher learning quickly it would be a revolution. Perhaps some well-connected elite guy with elite schools proposes to some admin doofus at the school a way to attach the institute to them and give them revenue (which is ALL they care about, have any of you seen all the satellite univerisities in Saudi Arabia???), dress it up as a "specialist think tank" or something. Likely no way to grass roots build the reputation.
  - commonlisp94 3y ago
    I agree with this. Also, how/when did business sneak in here? that's the one that least belongs.

slt2021 3y ago

> What does humanities need? an LLM model soon (if not already) will be enough to provide humanities education. I am not sure humanities research will even survive

ngetchell 3y ago
AI will never replace in-person instruction. If I pay to learn something, it needs to be from an expert, not from a computer that needs guardrails to prevent it from becoming a Nazi.
- slt2021 3y ago
  "humanities experts" probably exist only at top tier (ivy league and top state) colleges, but the rest of colleges - I have very bad news about the level of their expertise. They are seriously no better than llm
manuelabeledo 3y ago
An LLM model is as useful in this regard, as Wikipedia could be. Seriously, can’t wait for this LLM craze to wind down.
- slt2021 3y ago
  the progress around LLMs continues at incredible speed every day, while humanities as a field has been stuck at the same place for century+. I am betting on LLM against "humanities"

flangola7 3y ago

Which is horrible, humanities are needed now more than ever. I am unable to count the number of tech and business grads who have no appreciation for ethics, or art, or community.

unsupp0rted 3y ago
> humanities are needed now more than ever Please elaborate
robocat 3y ago
So humanities are the only true moral compass for ethics and community. You seem to imply that tech and business grads are just evil.
- DocTomoe 3y ago
  The older I get, the more I would agree with that statement. Tech and business grads without a classical humanities side-education tend to become the worst people, hyperspecializinh on things that maximise profits at the cost of human suffering and environmental destruction.
  - ryan93 3y ago
    How do people not understand selection? Regardless think of all the world’s warmongers. Almost none were engineers. All the colonizers were humanities guys. Hitler and his top guys were art and humanities guys. Every president who bombs the innocent has been a history or poli sci major.
    - pessimizer 3y ago
      Thatcher?
      - ryan93 3y ago
        Thatcher on the one hand Nazis and centuries of colonization on the other. I’ll take it

mkl 3y ago

> The professors of these programs are generally all old and simply riding out tenure to retirement Reality begs to differ: https://worldlanguages.wvu.edu/faculty-staff https://worldlanguages.wvu.edu/faculty-staff (for posterity: https://web.archive.org/web/20230519180815/https://worldlanguages.wvu.edu/faculty-staff https://web.archive.org/web/20230519180815/https://worldlang...). > I roll my eyes at humanities as much as another science guy Speak for yourself.

grogenaut 3y ago
What are you taking from these photos? That they're not tenured? They're all young and not riding it out to retirement? Several of themn look to all have been copied over from a previous version of wordpress in sept 2021 so they're many are at least 2 years old. Speaking from photos at a big company, a large number of people who are senior folks have college looking photos and they're entering their 60s. My point being I'm not sure what you can tell from those photos.

bigbillheck 3y ago

> I roll my eyes at humanities as much as another science guy Sounds like an opportunity for self-improvement.

kstrauser 3y ago

I don’t want to live in a world without art. Neither do I want to work in software at a company where the engineers are designing user interfaces or writing the marketing docs.

Firmwarrior 3y ago
A world without art? There’d still be plenty of art even if we didn’t saddle gullible teenagers with lifelong unserviceable debt to fund the study of art

commonlisp94 3y ago

It's actually the other way around. Universities were originally for humanities, and science and engineering got attached. Maybe we just need separate engineering schools.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago
I completely agree, which is part of why I wonder if a reset is needed. The science and engineering produce the money in the economy, and the MBAs that flocked to universities in the last decades have started beancounting to only that stuff. Humanities, despite my little crack at them, are unquestionably the heart and soul of the institutions/foundations of higher learning of the last 2000+ years. The fact that the university system is being so thoroughly disrupted over the course of just 20-30 years is really appalling. Let me double down with something: the heart of the value proposition for college to employers (well, before AI) was the stratification and demonstration of intellectual labor ability. Humanities may not have as many direct employment skills as some of the sciences do, but it still has a lot of value hiring a philo major from Yale versus a Sociology major from Arizona State University. So the humanities needs to form new associations with the exclusivity, without their tuition revenues being siphoned off to vanity buildings, administrator/MBA salaries, etc. If you can offer "good college" hiring value / eliteness of degree but at half cost tuition to the students, you would have a HUGE value proposition. It's always taken a long time to build up the exclusivity. If one could "hack" an institute of higher learning quickly it would be a revolution. Perhaps some well-connected elite guy with elite schools proposes to some admin doofus at the school a way to attach the institute to them and give them revenue (which is ALL they care about, have any of you seen all the satellite univerisities in Saudi Arabia???), dress it up as a "specialist think tank" or something. Likely no way to grass roots build the reputation.
- commonlisp94 3y ago
  I agree with this. Also, how/when did business sneak in here? that's the one that least belongs.