6 ms·

> Higher Education Administration Not to make an obvious boring comment, but: someone was offering a college degree in this? Yeesh. Bloat begets bloat, I guess

by ketzo 3y ago

> Higher Education Administration Not to make an obvious boring comment, but: someone was offering a college degree in this? Yeesh. Bloat begets bloat, I guess. I guess maybe that's overly cynical. Post-secondary education is important, and it follows that we would want people to figure out how to best deliver it. But hard not to judge that, just a little bit.

csa 3y ago
> Not to make an obvious boring comment, but: someone was offering a college degree in [higher education administration]? Yeesh. Bloat begets bloat, I guess. 1. This is a graduate degree. 2. Part of the degree is doctorate type of stuff (research methodology). This content is definitely needed. The other part is stuff that is unique to universities, and it is all over the map — finance (including fund raising), policy, governance, student development, campus culture, etc. You can’t just take a random professor or a random business person and expect them to be a good university administrator. It’s a topic worthy of research and study, imho. All that said, many of the folks I know who majored in this field absolutely drink the kool-aid and are mostly full of shit. I personally think that’s due to the folks who are shaping the areas of discourse in this field (mostly in a very near-term sort of way that lacks vision) more than it being an issue of the field being fundamentally flawed itself.
- II2II 3y ago
  I'm not surprised that such a degree is available and needed, but having it pop up in a list of programs of a random university is curious. Surely the need for such a degree is limited and those who would seek it out would be keen on obtaining it from an institution that isn't struggling.
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    indeed, the failures described in the article seem to only strengthen the case for better training school admins
  - csa 3y ago
    > Surely the need for such a degree is limited and those who would seek it out would be keen on obtaining it from an institution that isn't struggling. This is the flagship state school. It’s hardly some random school. If this program is not at this school in the state, it won’t be at any school. If you’re not from the US, every state has a “flagship” state school. Some have a comparably strong second school that usually covers agriculture and engineering (these are the A&M schools). West Virginia only has one major state school, and WVU is that school.
    - freebee56 3y ago
      West Virginia has a smaller population than Dallas. I don't see why students can't go to another state to get their education.
      - welldoneator 3y ago
        Cost?
      - rewmie 3y ago
        > I don't see why students can't go to another state to get their education. As a non-american, I am baffled by this way of thinking. Higher education is supposed to be a way to ensure that a state is self-sufficient in terms of some core competencies by retaining a small number of workers specialized in compiling, developing, and sharing industry knowledge. Is West Virginia so empoverished that they can't manage to support the two dozen or so teachers required to support an engineering degree?
        morelisp 3y ago
        As an American, I think freebee56's thinking is very rare - intellectually most people understand the situation as you do, and emotionally flagship state universities engender a strong sense of identity in graduates and state residents, in some states even for those who didn't attend it.
      - filoleg 3y ago
avidphantasm 3y ago
I worked at a university that offer a “PhD” in higher ed. administration. In theory I suppose nearly any field could be the valid subject of research. In practice, I saw this degree used to grant PhDs to existing administrators who didn’t already have PhDs. I’m guessing that this may be useful in gaming rankings.
- kevinmchugh 3y ago
  It's also that someone working in higher ed, even if they're not an academic, needs a graduate degree to get the respect of the academics.
JackFr 3y ago
Often high school principal jobs, school district administrator and university jobs require a graduate degree, as a gatekeeping credential. This degree was likely created to capture that tuition money by offering the necessary employment credential for a relatively low level of academic effort.
nunez 3y ago
There is a lot of theory and practical studies involved in running a school or university. Also, many schools will require their admin to have a background in school administration, which tracks like this one help develop.
- bluGill 3y ago
  School adminstration should be a sub study of MBA, they are mostly the same, or at least should be. Of course MBA programs deserve question too.
  - chasing 3y ago
    Suddenly everyone's an expert in Higher Education Administration, that thing they just learned about ten minutes ago.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Everyone wants to think they are special and thus different and better. Nobody is. You are all the evils of Trump / Stalin / slave owners but for minor differences of situation.
chasing 3y ago
Maybe don’t judge it, then. At least not in such a condescending way. Especially since we need more people thinking deeply about how to make education work, not fewer.
- bigtex 3y ago
  Public schools have been growing the administrative side of the business for decades, getting more money than ever before per student and it seems children are learning less and less. That Doesn’t seem like the best track record for thinking deeply. They do get paid very well and in many states are allowed to retire early which insane pensions so maybe too much thinking on salaries and more attention to the students.
  - chasing 3y ago
    Might I suggest that if it’s a problem maybe it’s a good thing to have people study it more deeply?
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Maybe,but it seems like a self perpetuating fraud of the taxpayers and students who are funding education costs growing faster than inflation to me.
      - chasing 3y ago
        If you are concerned about spiraling costs and the siloing of wealth in this country, let me suggest you look elsewhere. Students and educators ain’t it.
        bigtex 3y ago
        https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/ct-sta-paraday-criminal-investigation-st-0804-20190802-3epinwffdrbkpch2vntnnv35fy-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/ct-st... https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/2-investigators-highest-paid-illinois-school-supt-gets-400k-to-oversee-1200-students/ https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/2-investigators-highest... https://www.illinoisloop.org/salary.html https://www.illinoisloop.org/salary.html https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2018/06/04/the-exclusive-100000-club-meet-30000-members-at-the-illinois-teachers-retirement-system-trs/?sh=33fe12bb6129 https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2018/06/04/the... Seems that the "educators" in Illinois are very wealthy.
canjobear 3y ago
> Higher Education Administration This is good as a first step. Better would be Higher Education Administration Administration, a PhD-level field dedicated to the theory and practice of administrating academic programs about higher education administration.
- stodor89 3y ago
  You can do this PhD any number of times, and each time adds another "Administration" at the end.
Zetobal 3y ago
You comment this on a website which has weekly threads about "how I burned out switching from dev to management" or "How I started a small business on an island because the switch to management fucked up my life" threads.

by ketzo 3y ago

csa 3y ago

> Not to make an obvious boring comment, but: someone was offering a college degree in [higher education administration]? Yeesh. Bloat begets bloat, I guess. 1. This is a graduate degree. 2. Part of the degree is doctorate type of stuff (research methodology). This content is definitely needed. The other part is stuff that is unique to universities, and it is all over the map — finance (including fund raising), policy, governance, student development, campus culture, etc. You can’t just take a random professor or a random business person and expect them to be a good university administrator. It’s a topic worthy of research and study, imho. All that said, many of the folks I know who majored in this field absolutely drink the kool-aid and are mostly full of shit. I personally think that’s due to the folks who are shaping the areas of discourse in this field (mostly in a very near-term sort of way that lacks vision) more than it being an issue of the field being fundamentally flawed itself.

II2II 3y ago
I'm not surprised that such a degree is available and needed, but having it pop up in a list of programs of a random university is curious. Surely the need for such a degree is limited and those who would seek it out would be keen on obtaining it from an institution that isn't struggling.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  indeed, the failures described in the article seem to only strengthen the case for better training school admins
- csa 3y ago
  > Surely the need for such a degree is limited and those who would seek it out would be keen on obtaining it from an institution that isn't struggling. This is the flagship state school. It’s hardly some random school. If this program is not at this school in the state, it won’t be at any school. If you’re not from the US, every state has a “flagship” state school. Some have a comparably strong second school that usually covers agriculture and engineering (these are the A&M schools). West Virginia only has one major state school, and WVU is that school.
  - freebee56 3y ago
    West Virginia has a smaller population than Dallas. I don't see why students can't go to another state to get their education.
    - welldoneator 3y ago
      Cost?
    - rewmie 3y ago
      > I don't see why students can't go to another state to get their education. As a non-american, I am baffled by this way of thinking. Higher education is supposed to be a way to ensure that a state is self-sufficient in terms of some core competencies by retaining a small number of workers specialized in compiling, developing, and sharing industry knowledge. Is West Virginia so empoverished that they can't manage to support the two dozen or so teachers required to support an engineering degree?
      - morelisp 3y ago
        As an American, I think freebee56's thinking is very rare - intellectually most people understand the situation as you do, and emotionally flagship state universities engender a strong sense of identity in graduates and state residents, in some states even for those who didn't attend it.
    - filoleg 3y ago

avidphantasm 3y ago

I worked at a university that offer a “PhD” in higher ed. administration. In theory I suppose nearly any field could be the valid subject of research. In practice, I saw this degree used to grant PhDs to existing administrators who didn’t already have PhDs. I’m guessing that this may be useful in gaming rankings.

kevinmchugh 3y ago
It's also that someone working in higher ed, even if they're not an academic, needs a graduate degree to get the respect of the academics.

JackFr 3y ago

Often high school principal jobs, school district administrator and university jobs require a graduate degree, as a gatekeeping credential. This degree was likely created to capture that tuition money by offering the necessary employment credential for a relatively low level of academic effort.

nunez 3y ago

There is a lot of theory and practical studies involved in running a school or university. Also, many schools will require their admin to have a background in school administration, which tracks like this one help develop.

bluGill 3y ago
School adminstration should be a sub study of MBA, they are mostly the same, or at least should be. Of course MBA programs deserve question too.
- chasing 3y ago
  Suddenly everyone's an expert in Higher Education Administration, that thing they just learned about ten minutes ago.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Everyone wants to think they are special and thus different and better. Nobody is. You are all the evils of Trump / Stalin / slave owners but for minor differences of situation.

chasing 3y ago

Maybe don’t judge it, then. At least not in such a condescending way. Especially since we need more people thinking deeply about how to make education work, not fewer.

bigtex 3y ago
Public schools have been growing the administrative side of the business for decades, getting more money than ever before per student and it seems children are learning less and less. That Doesn’t seem like the best track record for thinking deeply. They do get paid very well and in many states are allowed to retire early which insane pensions so maybe too much thinking on salaries and more attention to the students.
- chasing 3y ago
  Might I suggest that if it’s a problem maybe it’s a good thing to have people study it more deeply?
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Maybe,but it seems like a self perpetuating fraud of the taxpayers and students who are funding education costs growing faster than inflation to me.
    - chasing 3y ago
      If you are concerned about spiraling costs and the siloing of wealth in this country, let me suggest you look elsewhere. Students and educators ain’t it.
      - bigtex 3y ago
        https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/ct-sta-paraday-criminal-investigation-st-0804-20190802-3epinwffdrbkpch2vntnnv35fy-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/ct-st... https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/2-investigators-highest-paid-illinois-school-supt-gets-400k-to-oversee-1200-students/ https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/2-investigators-highest... https://www.illinoisloop.org/salary.html https://www.illinoisloop.org/salary.html https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2018/06/04/the-exclusive-100000-club-meet-30000-members-at-the-illinois-teachers-retirement-system-trs/?sh=33fe12bb6129 https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2018/06/04/the... Seems that the "educators" in Illinois are very wealthy.

canjobear 3y ago

> Higher Education Administration This is good as a first step. Better would be Higher Education Administration Administration, a PhD-level field dedicated to the theory and practice of administrating academic programs about higher education administration.

stodor89 3y ago
You can do this PhD any number of times, and each time adds another "Administration" at the end.

Zetobal 3y ago

You comment this on a website which has weekly threads about "how I burned out switching from dev to management" or "How I started a small business on an island because the switch to management fucked up my life" threads.