6 ms·

Complete tangent: I wonder if it's uniquely American to believe that people can/should only be passionate about jobs that are world-changing. Or maybe it's just

Complete tangent: I wonder if it's uniquely American to believe that people can/should only be passionate about jobs that are world-changing. Or maybe it's just very common in the tech-world and HN. I'm absolutely guilty of this. I'm a software engineer, and I feel proud of having worked on products that millions of people use. Steve Jobs's challenge to "put a dent in the universe" is axiomatic for many of us. Yet I know that in other countries (e.g., Japan) there is a belief that any job, no matter how humble, is worth doing well and that passion for excellence is a virtue inside us and is not conditional on the perceived pecking order of the job. If we had such an attitude, maybe it would be easier to feel fulfilled--if you're holding out for changing the world before you can be happy, you're (statistically) going to die miserable. On the other hand, maybe a culture in which we give 110% to meaningless jobs is just another chain for the rich and powerful to keep us productive. I honestly don't know.

eulgro 3y ago
I find it very difficult to find meaning in a large portion of the jobs available today. Most workers are just another cog in the wheel. The system is so large that one cannot directly appreciate the effects of their work, or even know whether they are positive at all. This contrasts with say, a subsistance farmer who produces food for their family and lives in a small community where every product of their labor has a known and appreciable impact. In that case, the equivalent goal of "changing the world" is "helping the community", which is much more attainable.
- newaccount74 3y ago
  At some point you have to just like your job. No amount of "you are changing the world" feeling is going to keep you motivated for a job you hate. I get joy from figuring out how to solve a tricky UX issue, or from finally discovering the root cause of a difficult bug. The work itself can be fulfilling, regardless of any potential deeper meaning.
- mgrund 3y ago
  > I find it very difficult to find meaning in a large portion of the jobs available today. Most workers are just another cog in the wheel. The system is so large that one cannot directly appreciate the effects of their work, or even know whether they are positive at all. My experience is that the same job also has a large range for meaningfulness depending on how well leadership manages to facilitate it.
petre 3y ago
> Yet I know that in other countries (e.g., Japan) there is a belief that any job, no matter how humble, is worth doing well and that passion for excellence is a virtue That's a reason why the quality of most Japanese products is superlative. Another nation that is passionate about their stuff are Italians, but they value good looks and good food above all. The US values profits and growth and China values high output volumes. If one works in a Fortune 500 company they're probably creating value for shareholders instead of changing the world. What they are primarily changing is the income gap, by making the rich richer.
- Hendrikto 3y ago
  > Another nation that is passionate about their stuff are Italians At least where I am from, Italians have a reputation for shoddy products, laziness, and not caring. As you say: They are happy as long as the facade looks good. Behind the scenes is a mess.
  - petre 3y ago
    You're probably from Germany, the Nederlands or Denmark then. It's a common Northern European prejudice to consider southerners "lazy".
    - Pigalowda 3y ago
      Yea, Spaniards, Italians, and Greeks are some of the hardest working people in the world..
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
Macha 3y ago
It's funny, because my perspective as a European is American culture places more value on the performative idea of "love your job" even for the entry level jobs where here it's much more honest about it just being a job
atleastoptimal 3y ago
>if you're holding out for changing the world before you can be happy, you're (statistically) going to die miserable You bring up Japan yet they're known for being excessively and pointlessly overworked to the point of depression and suicide. It is a culture that rewards obedience and prostration to your job above everything else. So many were peer pressured into finding meaning in their work to such an excessive extent, and of course didn't become happy because its a system that optimizes for cohesion and stability, not happiness and meaning.
bassclari 3y ago
We are just more full of shit in America. Being passionate and changing the world is Silicon valley kabuki theater that lasts just long enough to cash out the stock options you have. There is also an entire generation that has been trained to pretend what they happen to do for a living is exactly what they are passionate about in life. To say otherwise with the slightest doubt would be to feel like the biggest failure.

eulgro 3y ago

I find it very difficult to find meaning in a large portion of the jobs available today. Most workers are just another cog in the wheel. The system is so large that one cannot directly appreciate the effects of their work, or even know whether they are positive at all. This contrasts with say, a subsistance farmer who produces food for their family and lives in a small community where every product of their labor has a known and appreciable impact. In that case, the equivalent goal of "changing the world" is "helping the community", which is much more attainable.

newaccount74 3y ago
At some point you have to just like your job. No amount of "you are changing the world" feeling is going to keep you motivated for a job you hate. I get joy from figuring out how to solve a tricky UX issue, or from finally discovering the root cause of a difficult bug. The work itself can be fulfilling, regardless of any potential deeper meaning.
mgrund 3y ago
> I find it very difficult to find meaning in a large portion of the jobs available today. Most workers are just another cog in the wheel. The system is so large that one cannot directly appreciate the effects of their work, or even know whether they are positive at all. My experience is that the same job also has a large range for meaningfulness depending on how well leadership manages to facilitate it.

petre 3y ago

> Yet I know that in other countries (e.g., Japan) there is a belief that any job, no matter how humble, is worth doing well and that passion for excellence is a virtue That's a reason why the quality of most Japanese products is superlative. Another nation that is passionate about their stuff are Italians, but they value good looks and good food above all. The US values profits and growth and China values high output volumes. If one works in a Fortune 500 company they're probably creating value for shareholders instead of changing the world. What they are primarily changing is the income gap, by making the rich richer.

Hendrikto 3y ago
> Another nation that is passionate about their stuff are Italians At least where I am from, Italians have a reputation for shoddy products, laziness, and not caring. As you say: They are happy as long as the facade looks good. Behind the scenes is a mess.
- petre 3y ago
  You're probably from Germany, the Nederlands or Denmark then. It's a common Northern European prejudice to consider southerners "lazy".
  - Pigalowda 3y ago
    Yea, Spaniards, Italians, and Greeks are some of the hardest working people in the world..
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

Macha 3y ago

It's funny, because my perspective as a European is American culture places more value on the performative idea of "love your job" even for the entry level jobs where here it's much more honest about it just being a job

atleastoptimal 3y ago

>if you're holding out for changing the world before you can be happy, you're (statistically) going to die miserable You bring up Japan yet they're known for being excessively and pointlessly overworked to the point of depression and suicide. It is a culture that rewards obedience and prostration to your job above everything else. So many were peer pressured into finding meaning in their work to such an excessive extent, and of course didn't become happy because its a system that optimizes for cohesion and stability, not happiness and meaning.

bassclari 3y ago

We are just more full of shit in America. Being passionate and changing the world is Silicon valley kabuki theater that lasts just long enough to cash out the stock options you have. There is also an entire generation that has been trained to pretend what they happen to do for a living is exactly what they are passionate about in life. To say otherwise with the slightest doubt would be to feel like the biggest failure.