6 ms·

I'm fascinated by how so many comments here seem to assume that Bankman-Fried is playing some long strategy, when the simplest answer is that he's mentally ill

by gentle 3y ago

I'm fascinated by how so many comments here seem to assume that Bankman-Fried is playing some long strategy, when the simplest answer is that he's mentally ill and can't stop himself from engaging in compulsive behaviors, even when he's been appraised of the consequences, repeatedly.

H8crilA 3y ago
Elon Musk vibes. For example when he was shilling dogecoin, or bragging about not caring at all about the $420 SEC settlement. It's oddly fun to watch such exceptional narcissists, both when they rise and when they fall. They're so invested in their image.
- chmod600 3y ago
  Elon has been important in at least 3 major companies that have real products that are delivering real value today. I can't speak to his mental health, but SBF is simply not comparable.
  - harry8 3y ago
    I've loathed Elon since the Thai cave fiasco but I think this is entirely fair.
    - H8crilA 3y ago
      It was a judgement of personality traits/disorder. Not of commerical success. SBF, Musk or Trump behave like privileged children that believe rules/law do not apply to them. They want everyone to know and admire them for their awesomeness, in fact it's their awesomeness that buys them an infinite number of get-out-of-jail cards. Yes, Musk is the most useful out of all of them, by a mile. Still, the personality type/disorder is the same.
  - IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
    Important in being a source of money. The rest? Not so much.
    - dotnet00 3y ago
      Being a source of money alone was not enough to establish a successful private space launch company. There were plenty with even more money available and even actual institutional support that never got anywhere.
    - fastball 3y ago
      One of the three he certainly wasn't important as a source of money (X/PayPal), as that is where he got the seed money for the other ventures you are diminishing his involvement in. For Tesla he was an original source of money but has also been the CEO since 2008 (the same year they began production of the original roadster). So all the things people know Tesla for today (and have made it a hugely valuable company) happened under his direct leadership as CEO. For SpaceX the idea that he is just a source of money is clearly ludicrous, given that it is entirely his brainchild. Since founding the company, he has done an excellent job of hiring all the right people that have made the company what it is today, and is clearly leading the vision and focus of the company.
  - dns_snek 3y ago
    Elon has also engaged in crypto market manipulation by shilling and dumping DOGE regularly. They're absolutely comparable.
    - zirgs 3y ago
      DOGE is a joke and anyone who thinks that it's a serious investment deserves to lose money. It's an idiot tax.
      - dns_snek 3y ago
        Ponzi schemes are a joke, too. Obviously they're not going to scale -- but people running them are often caught and sent to prison. I find it baffling that you're defending his antisocial and exploitative behavior.
        zirgs 3y ago
        The creator of DOGE straight up told everyone that he created it as a joke. Ponzi schemes, on the other hand, are marketed as legitimate investments.
        dns_snek 3y ago
        What the creator of DOGE said is completely irrelevant to this discussion. If you think there's nothing morally wrong about abusing your position to swindle your fans in technically-legal ways, then any further discussion is pointless. For what it's worth, I have the same level of disdain towards all celebrities/public figures who abuse their power in this way. It's alarmingly common these days.
tmpz22 3y ago
> so many comments here seem to assume that Bankman-Fried is playing some long strategy People like to feel that they're in on a conspiracy. I think because it means they're smarter then the others who "can't understand it". Its especially prevalent in technology-enthusiast circles, internet-culture, etc. Endless validation on the internet reinforces this. If you want to believe the Earth is a simulation you can go find a forum or podcast exactly to that effect. Heck YouTube will put a chain of videos at the top of your recommendations.
- re-thc 3y ago
  > People like to feel that they're in on a conspiracy. People like to feel that people always make the best informed decisions and so there's always "more to it". That's especially so for established professionals or "successful" people. The idea is if so and so is successful they must be doing things right - at every step.
- pierrec 3y ago
  "because it means they're smarter than the others" That may be part of the reason for conspiracy theories, but I think there's more to it. A lot of people take comfort in the idea that there is some grand order to the world (regardless of it being good or evil). It can be hard to accept the alternative - that the real world is chaotic and that no one is actually in control.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    There's also the fact that history, politics, business, etc. is full of actual conspiracies, just not of the "lizzards and aliens" kind, but of the people acting covertly, intimidating, bribing, working together, etc. to further their private interests kind...
    - chx 3y ago
      Sometimes it's not even particularly covert just hard to see the big picture as the events unfold. https://wwnorton.com/books/Invisible-Hands/ https://wwnorton.com/books/Invisible-Hands/
1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago
Sounds like a perfect candidate to run a large, unregulated financial institution. /s The government has said it is going to show he was conducting a "political influence campaign" using customer deposits and using "political straw donations" as part of a money laundering scheme. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939.195.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... If SBF was incapable of orchestrating such a campaign himself, perhaps his parents were assisting him.
no_butterscotch 3y ago
> when the simplest answer is that he's mentally ill and can't stop himself from engaging in compulsive behaviors This is the new favorite reason to let people off the hook. Classifying themselves as ill to distance their own behavior. "It was Jekyll not Hyde".
- eschaton 3y ago
  Where did anyone say he (or anyone else) should not be held responsible for his unlawful conduct? Even in the so-vanishingly-rare-it-almost-doesn’t-exist-outside-fiction case of someone being found not legally culpable for a crime by reason of insanity, that almost always comes with things like compelled inpatient mental health treatment instead. The Dan White “Twinkie Defense” was so astounding because for once something like that worked. (One guess as to why it happened to work for him, but here’s a hint: Cops celebrated when the verdict was announced.)
- nikanj 3y ago
  Elizabeth Holmes is playing this very strategy https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/09/elizabeth-holmes-is-rebranding-herself-as-a-sweet-devoted-mother-will-anyone-buy-it https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/09/elizab...
hackerlight 3y ago
Which mental illness are you speculating that he has? I listened to and read a lot of his words in the months leading up to the FTX collapse and he came across as sharp as a tack and not unstable.
- sirsinsalot 3y ago
  I think people are conflating diseases of the mind (mental illness) with being mentally unhealthy (toxic, impulsive, egotistical, narcissistic,...) An unhealthy mind can be trained to be healthy. Like going to the gym. Mental illness is chronic and medical and requires medical intervention. Neither absolve the person of responsibility except in very narrow cases (imho) where a medical issue has impaired cognition in such a way the person committing the crime saw the actions in such a radically opposite way to how society (composed of people with varying mental health) sees those actions. Both mental illness and being mentally unhealthy require compassion. Let's face it, anyone whose pursuit of wealth at all costs has this outcome is unlikely to be very happy or feel very good much of the time. It isn't healthy behaviour
leptons 3y ago
> the simplest answer is that he's mentally ill Or he's just a crook and trying desperately to avoid consequences of his illegal actions.
- styren 3y ago
  He can be both, it's not an either or.
  - leptons 3y ago
    Calling him mentally ill without any professional diagnoses minimizes his culpability and criminality.
Fezzik 3y ago
As long as we’re throwing out random theories, I submit he is just a cocksure asshole who still thinks he’ll get away with his scam based on who mommy, daddy, and their friends are. Pardon the language, but I think it is the most apt.
- smsm42 3y ago
  This sounds plausible. He probably haven't suffered any serious consequences of his actions ever before, and his bail agreement, which is pretty mild, only reinforced him in the illusion that this is nothing, it'll all be ok, consequences happen to other people.
  - ethanwillis 3y ago
    Another victim of affluenza it seems.
- jgilias 3y ago
  I remember watching a body language analysis video of some of his interviews early on. Your assessment seems spot on. He’s a failure of parenting.
- bambax 3y ago
  He can be both. An entitled schmuck who's not entirely there.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- StackOverlord 3y ago
  I learned "cocksure" thanks to that comment. Also I think it runs deeper than his parents. Wasn't it the top contributor to the democrat party during last election ?
- zamalek 3y ago
  Mental illness or conspiracy theories also dilute his actions: he's either not guilty by insanity, or extremely intelligent by manipulation. We don't need to make any excuses for him: he's just an asshole sharing someone else's most intimate information.
themitigating 3y ago
Does he have to be mentally ill? He's stupid, that's it
CPLX 3y ago
It’s even simpler, he’s addicted to stimulants. Watch the final act of Scarface or Goodfellas for context.
dns_snek 3y ago
> when the simplest answer is that he's mentally ill I'm sure his lawyers would love to claim otherwise, but affluenza isn't a real medical condition. The simplest answer is that he's lived his life believing that he can do anything he wants. These "consequences" people talk about are for poor people, not people like him. His behavior makes perfect sense with that in mind.
pard68 3y ago
My baseless theory is that he hasn't realized his minders have cut the cord. This stuff happens from time to time. Someone who is propped up and aided by a government agent begins to feel like they are an insider. When they screw up, their agent goes to bat for them. But if they screw up and are no longer needed, the agent acts like they've never met. At least that's how it works in all the $7.99 paperback thrillers!
samstave 3y ago
I think he's the Human form of a Ferengi.

by gentle 3y ago

H8crilA 3y ago

Elon Musk vibes. For example when he was shilling dogecoin, or bragging about not caring at all about the $420 SEC settlement. It's oddly fun to watch such exceptional narcissists, both when they rise and when they fall. They're so invested in their image.

chmod600 3y ago
Elon has been important in at least 3 major companies that have real products that are delivering real value today. I can't speak to his mental health, but SBF is simply not comparable.
- harry8 3y ago
  I've loathed Elon since the Thai cave fiasco but I think this is entirely fair.
  - H8crilA 3y ago
    It was a judgement of personality traits/disorder. Not of commerical success. SBF, Musk or Trump behave like privileged children that believe rules/law do not apply to them. They want everyone to know and admire them for their awesomeness, in fact it's their awesomeness that buys them an infinite number of get-out-of-jail cards. Yes, Musk is the most useful out of all of them, by a mile. Still, the personality type/disorder is the same.
- IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
  Important in being a source of money. The rest? Not so much.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    Being a source of money alone was not enough to establish a successful private space launch company. There were plenty with even more money available and even actual institutional support that never got anywhere.
  - fastball 3y ago
    One of the three he certainly wasn't important as a source of money (X/PayPal), as that is where he got the seed money for the other ventures you are diminishing his involvement in. For Tesla he was an original source of money but has also been the CEO since 2008 (the same year they began production of the original roadster). So all the things people know Tesla for today (and have made it a hugely valuable company) happened under his direct leadership as CEO. For SpaceX the idea that he is just a source of money is clearly ludicrous, given that it is entirely his brainchild. Since founding the company, he has done an excellent job of hiring all the right people that have made the company what it is today, and is clearly leading the vision and focus of the company.
- dns_snek 3y ago
  Elon has also engaged in crypto market manipulation by shilling and dumping DOGE regularly. They're absolutely comparable.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    DOGE is a joke and anyone who thinks that it's a serious investment deserves to lose money. It's an idiot tax.
    - dns_snek 3y ago
      Ponzi schemes are a joke, too. Obviously they're not going to scale -- but people running them are often caught and sent to prison. I find it baffling that you're defending his antisocial and exploitative behavior.
      - zirgs 3y ago
        The creator of DOGE straight up told everyone that he created it as a joke. Ponzi schemes, on the other hand, are marketed as legitimate investments.
        dns_snek 3y ago
        What the creator of DOGE said is completely irrelevant to this discussion. If you think there's nothing morally wrong about abusing your position to swindle your fans in technically-legal ways, then any further discussion is pointless. For what it's worth, I have the same level of disdain towards all celebrities/public figures who abuse their power in this way. It's alarmingly common these days.

tmpz22 3y ago

> so many comments here seem to assume that Bankman-Fried is playing some long strategy People like to feel that they're in on a conspiracy. I think because it means they're smarter then the others who "can't understand it". Its especially prevalent in technology-enthusiast circles, internet-culture, etc. Endless validation on the internet reinforces this. If you want to believe the Earth is a simulation you can go find a forum or podcast exactly to that effect. Heck YouTube will put a chain of videos at the top of your recommendations.

re-thc 3y ago
> People like to feel that they're in on a conspiracy. People like to feel that people always make the best informed decisions and so there's always "more to it". That's especially so for established professionals or "successful" people. The idea is if so and so is successful they must be doing things right - at every step.
pierrec 3y ago
"because it means they're smarter than the others" That may be part of the reason for conspiracy theories, but I think there's more to it. A lot of people take comfort in the idea that there is some grand order to the world (regardless of it being good or evil). It can be hard to accept the alternative - that the real world is chaotic and that no one is actually in control.
- coldtea 3y ago
  There's also the fact that history, politics, business, etc. is full of actual conspiracies, just not of the "lizzards and aliens" kind, but of the people acting covertly, intimidating, bribing, working together, etc. to further their private interests kind...
  - chx 3y ago
    Sometimes it's not even particularly covert just hard to see the big picture as the events unfold. https://wwnorton.com/books/Invisible-Hands/ https://wwnorton.com/books/Invisible-Hands/

1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago

Sounds like a perfect candidate to run a large, unregulated financial institution. /s The government has said it is going to show he was conducting a "political influence campaign" using customer deposits and using "political straw donations" as part of a money laundering scheme. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939/gov.uscourts.nysd.590939.195.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... If SBF was incapable of orchestrating such a campaign himself, perhaps his parents were assisting him.

no_butterscotch 3y ago

> when the simplest answer is that he's mentally ill and can't stop himself from engaging in compulsive behaviors This is the new favorite reason to let people off the hook. Classifying themselves as ill to distance their own behavior. "It was Jekyll not Hyde".

eschaton 3y ago
Where did anyone say he (or anyone else) should not be held responsible for his unlawful conduct? Even in the so-vanishingly-rare-it-almost-doesn’t-exist-outside-fiction case of someone being found not legally culpable for a crime by reason of insanity, that almost always comes with things like compelled inpatient mental health treatment instead. The Dan White “Twinkie Defense” was so astounding because for once something like that worked. (One guess as to why it happened to work for him, but here’s a hint: Cops celebrated when the verdict was announced.)
nikanj 3y ago
Elizabeth Holmes is playing this very strategy https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/09/elizabeth-holmes-is-rebranding-herself-as-a-sweet-devoted-mother-will-anyone-buy-it https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/09/elizab...

hackerlight 3y ago

Which mental illness are you speculating that he has? I listened to and read a lot of his words in the months leading up to the FTX collapse and he came across as sharp as a tack and not unstable.

sirsinsalot 3y ago
I think people are conflating diseases of the mind (mental illness) with being mentally unhealthy (toxic, impulsive, egotistical, narcissistic,...) An unhealthy mind can be trained to be healthy. Like going to the gym. Mental illness is chronic and medical and requires medical intervention. Neither absolve the person of responsibility except in very narrow cases (imho) where a medical issue has impaired cognition in such a way the person committing the crime saw the actions in such a radically opposite way to how society (composed of people with varying mental health) sees those actions. Both mental illness and being mentally unhealthy require compassion. Let's face it, anyone whose pursuit of wealth at all costs has this outcome is unlikely to be very happy or feel very good much of the time. It isn't healthy behaviour

leptons 3y ago

> the simplest answer is that he's mentally ill Or he's just a crook and trying desperately to avoid consequences of his illegal actions.

styren 3y ago
He can be both, it's not an either or.
- leptons 3y ago
  Calling him mentally ill without any professional diagnoses minimizes his culpability and criminality.

Fezzik 3y ago

As long as we’re throwing out random theories, I submit he is just a cocksure asshole who still thinks he’ll get away with his scam based on who mommy, daddy, and their friends are. Pardon the language, but I think it is the most apt.

smsm42 3y ago
This sounds plausible. He probably haven't suffered any serious consequences of his actions ever before, and his bail agreement, which is pretty mild, only reinforced him in the illusion that this is nothing, it'll all be ok, consequences happen to other people.
- ethanwillis 3y ago
  Another victim of affluenza it seems.
jgilias 3y ago
I remember watching a body language analysis video of some of his interviews early on. Your assessment seems spot on. He’s a failure of parenting.
bambax 3y ago
He can be both. An entitled schmuck who's not entirely there.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
StackOverlord 3y ago
I learned "cocksure" thanks to that comment. Also I think it runs deeper than his parents. Wasn't it the top contributor to the democrat party during last election ?
zamalek 3y ago
Mental illness or conspiracy theories also dilute his actions: he's either not guilty by insanity, or extremely intelligent by manipulation. We don't need to make any excuses for him: he's just an asshole sharing someone else's most intimate information.

themitigating 3y ago

Does he have to be mentally ill? He's stupid, that's it

CPLX 3y ago

It’s even simpler, he’s addicted to stimulants. Watch the final act of Scarface or Goodfellas for context.

dns_snek 3y ago

> when the simplest answer is that he's mentally ill I'm sure his lawyers would love to claim otherwise, but affluenza isn't a real medical condition. The simplest answer is that he's lived his life believing that he can do anything he wants. These "consequences" people talk about are for poor people, not people like him. His behavior makes perfect sense with that in mind.

pard68 3y ago

My baseless theory is that he hasn't realized his minders have cut the cord. This stuff happens from time to time. Someone who is propped up and aided by a government agent begins to feel like they are an insider. When they screw up, their agent goes to bat for them. But if they screw up and are no longer needed, the agent acts like they've never met. At least that's how it works in all the $7.99 paperback thrillers!

samstave 3y ago

I think he's the Human form of a Ferengi.