6 ms·

> FTX required collective and not only individual madness. I think this either conflates crypto with FTX, or alternatively, SBF being on trial with being scape

> FTX required collective and not only individual madness. I think this either conflates crypto with FTX, or alternatively, SBF being on trial with being scapegoated. The other execs admitted they did something wrong and are pleading guilty. This is individual madness

itake 3y ago
Why stop at execs?
lkjdsfsdf 3y ago
Nope, they were all crazy. Look at the things Ellison was writing and saying back then. And the money she was losing while claiming to be a savant. Look at the programmer who put in the code that was something like TRADE_IS_ALLOWED = HAS_POSITIVE_BALANCE || TRADER_IS_ALMEDA. Just because they're pleading out doesn't mean they are/weren't crazy.
- babyshake 3y ago
  Not to be all woke, but "crazy" and "madness" probably aren't the right words for what happened here.
  - DonHopkins 3y ago
    Diabolic has religious connotations, but just the right religious connotations.
  - finite_depth 3y ago
    Depends on if you consider "crazy" to include rampant narcissism fueled by the usual ridiculous elitism and we're-smart-so-everything-will-work failure mode of "rationalist" culture.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      They could also just be, you know, selfish assholes.
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        If a flat broke person living on the street, doing lots of drugs, mentally stressed by their circumstance, starts making wild self-aggrandizing claims completely divorced from reality, it isn't controversial to say that person is 'crazy' or mentally ill. People might nitpick the terminology you use to describe that person or criticize you for needlessly drawing attention to it, but nobody goes to bat for the sanity of a homeless person saying crazy shit about themselves. But if a very rich person living in mansion, doing lots of drugs, mentally stressed by the enormity of their crimes, starts making wild self-aggrandizing claims completely divorced from reality are they crazy? Suddenly people have an interest in defending their mental sanity. Why? Because rich people are entitled to more respect than the homeless by virtue of their wealth, and therefore we shouldn't put common labels like crazy on them? Or maybe it's because a rich luxurious lifestyle makes people immune to the onset of insanity? Were Caligula and Nero not crazy then? On the contrary, I think being very wealthy puts you at greater risk for becoming crazy; the more elite somebody is the more divorced from the typical human experience they become. Power and wealth corrupts their minds, inflating their egos to such an extent they lose track of reality. These people were all crazy. Maybe they weren't "mentally ill" in any biological sense, but they were crazy.
        mrguyorama 3y ago
        When you have a billion dollars to your name, you no longer get to play the victim card. ANY problem you have is tractable. You could have an entire team of the ten best psychologists in the country surrounding you at all times and keeping you grounded in reality and ethics and humility. At the point you are a CEO, being "crazy" is a choice. More than that, mental illness is almost never an excuse for bad behavior. You don't need to have empathy for the billionaire who has spent their entire life grifting and surrounding themselves with cheerleaders to feed their ego. Ego isn't a mental illness, every living human faces their ego, but most aren't allowed to feed it because they have to interact with a cruel reality. Nobody put a gun to Elon's head and forced him to make as much money as possible through lies and grift.
    - gizajob 3y ago
      “Reason is the slave of the passions” as philosopher David Hume said. Amazing how many rationalists completely overlook this easy to remember maxim.
      - finite_depth 3y ago
        That's part of it, and it's certainly why so many of them have persistent chips on their shoulder about shit that happened in middle school (looking at you, Scott Aaronson). The other part is that trying to construct all truth from first principles is a hopeless endeavor for a single person or even a group of people. The rejection of institutional expertise - and the collective knowledge of failure modes that is embedded deep within institutions - leads to a lot of predictable failures.
  - refulgentis 3y ago
    Not be all unpolitical, but maybe people use "woke" to mean "people who turn me into a snowflake"
- refulgentis 3y ago
  I'm not sure what's crazy, insane, or demonstrates madness with that, that's good ol' fashioned criming. Re: the readings I was assigned, her Tumblr is standard fare for the age and intellectual mileu, nothing crazy.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  They were on a lot of drugs. Drugs make you say and do shut that in retrospect looks crazy. But sounded like a good idea at the time.
ramesh31 3y ago
>The other execs admitted they did something wrong and are pleading guilty. This is individual madness They plead guilty because they were granted deals that involve testifying against SBF, and sang like canaries. But the feds have every intention of nailing Sam as hard as possible. There will be no plea bargaining for him. So it's either fight it in court, or take the max sentence. What we're seeing here are the last acts of a desperate man who knows he's screwed either way.
- Mistletoe 3y ago
  I feel like they shouldn't have been let off so easy. They are equally responsible. Making this all like some sort of Dr. Evil SBF scheme is silly. They were a gang, working together on the fraud. The case against SBF couldn't be hard to prove, why do you need to plea bargain the other execs and get them to testify?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
pxmpxm 3y ago
Disagree - there are multiple VC claiming multi-month due diligence before piling money into FTX. That premise and this multi billion exchange running the entire business on emojis and quick books cannot exist in the same reality.

itake 3y ago

Why stop at execs?

lkjdsfsdf 3y ago

Nope, they were all crazy. Look at the things Ellison was writing and saying back then. And the money she was losing while claiming to be a savant. Look at the programmer who put in the code that was something like TRADE_IS_ALLOWED = HAS_POSITIVE_BALANCE || TRADER_IS_ALMEDA. Just because they're pleading out doesn't mean they are/weren't crazy.

babyshake 3y ago
Not to be all woke, but "crazy" and "madness" probably aren't the right words for what happened here.
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  Diabolic has religious connotations, but just the right religious connotations.
- finite_depth 3y ago
  Depends on if you consider "crazy" to include rampant narcissism fueled by the usual ridiculous elitism and we're-smart-so-everything-will-work failure mode of "rationalist" culture.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    They could also just be, you know, selfish assholes.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      If a flat broke person living on the street, doing lots of drugs, mentally stressed by their circumstance, starts making wild self-aggrandizing claims completely divorced from reality, it isn't controversial to say that person is 'crazy' or mentally ill. People might nitpick the terminology you use to describe that person or criticize you for needlessly drawing attention to it, but nobody goes to bat for the sanity of a homeless person saying crazy shit about themselves. But if a very rich person living in mansion, doing lots of drugs, mentally stressed by the enormity of their crimes, starts making wild self-aggrandizing claims completely divorced from reality are they crazy? Suddenly people have an interest in defending their mental sanity. Why? Because rich people are entitled to more respect than the homeless by virtue of their wealth, and therefore we shouldn't put common labels like crazy on them? Or maybe it's because a rich luxurious lifestyle makes people immune to the onset of insanity? Were Caligula and Nero not crazy then? On the contrary, I think being very wealthy puts you at greater risk for becoming crazy; the more elite somebody is the more divorced from the typical human experience they become. Power and wealth corrupts their minds, inflating their egos to such an extent they lose track of reality. These people were all crazy. Maybe they weren't "mentally ill" in any biological sense, but they were crazy.
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        When you have a billion dollars to your name, you no longer get to play the victim card. ANY problem you have is tractable. You could have an entire team of the ten best psychologists in the country surrounding you at all times and keeping you grounded in reality and ethics and humility. At the point you are a CEO, being "crazy" is a choice. More than that, mental illness is almost never an excuse for bad behavior. You don't need to have empathy for the billionaire who has spent their entire life grifting and surrounding themselves with cheerleaders to feed their ego. Ego isn't a mental illness, every living human faces their ego, but most aren't allowed to feed it because they have to interact with a cruel reality. Nobody put a gun to Elon's head and forced him to make as much money as possible through lies and grift.
  - gizajob 3y ago
    “Reason is the slave of the passions” as philosopher David Hume said. Amazing how many rationalists completely overlook this easy to remember maxim.
    - finite_depth 3y ago
      That's part of it, and it's certainly why so many of them have persistent chips on their shoulder about shit that happened in middle school (looking at you, Scott Aaronson). The other part is that trying to construct all truth from first principles is a hopeless endeavor for a single person or even a group of people. The rejection of institutional expertise - and the collective knowledge of failure modes that is embedded deep within institutions - leads to a lot of predictable failures.
- refulgentis 3y ago
  Not be all unpolitical, but maybe people use "woke" to mean "people who turn me into a snowflake"
refulgentis 3y ago
I'm not sure what's crazy, insane, or demonstrates madness with that, that's good ol' fashioned criming. Re: the readings I was assigned, her Tumblr is standard fare for the age and intellectual mileu, nothing crazy.
nemo44x 3y ago
They were on a lot of drugs. Drugs make you say and do shut that in retrospect looks crazy. But sounded like a good idea at the time.

ramesh31 3y ago

>The other execs admitted they did something wrong and are pleading guilty. This is individual madness They plead guilty because they were granted deals that involve testifying against SBF, and sang like canaries. But the feds have every intention of nailing Sam as hard as possible. There will be no plea bargaining for him. So it's either fight it in court, or take the max sentence. What we're seeing here are the last acts of a desperate man who knows he's screwed either way.

Mistletoe 3y ago
I feel like they shouldn't have been let off so easy. They are equally responsible. Making this all like some sort of Dr. Evil SBF scheme is silly. They were a gang, working together on the fraud. The case against SBF couldn't be hard to prove, why do you need to plea bargain the other execs and get them to testify?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

pxmpxm 3y ago

Disagree - there are multiple VC claiming multi-month due diligence before piling money into FTX. That premise and this multi billion exchange running the entire business on emojis and quick books cannot exist in the same reality.