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gabereiser 3y ago
Seconded. This is fascinating stuff and reminds me of some crazy rant some guy was telling me about anti-gravity and how electromagnetic “ribbons” could propel you. Obviously the guy was nuts, right? How would one go about learning more about electromagnetic plasma containment folding?
- KyleBerezin 3y ago
  Haha, no I am just some random guy who reads too many Wikipedia articles. "Electromagnetic plasma containment folding" does sound like something a crazy person at a bus station would rant about. My explanation was definitely over simplified, but I'm not knowledgable enough to go into detail on the topic. I can't even point you towards something to read on the topic since everything I read about it is like 15 years old at this point.
  - tootie 3y ago
    If a Hollywood screenwriter were naming a crazy science device, they would come up with something like Wendelstien 7-X
    - tboughen 3y ago
      My favourite fact about it comes from https://phys.org/news/2016-02-plasma-physicist-discusses-wendelstein-x.amp https://phys.org/news/2016-02-plasma-physicist-discusses-wen... “…the supporting structure can only withstand the forces if the interfaces between the ten individual segments of the central rings, which weighs several tonnes, are built with a level of precision of less than 100 millionths of a metre…” - and they found a small family business in the north of Italy capable of doing this!
      - dale_glass 3y ago
        Odd units. 1 meter = 100 cm = 1000mm. So 1 millionth of a meter = 1/1000th of 1mm. thus, 100 millionths of a meter = 0.1mm, or ~4 thou in American units. Easily achievable by hobbyists, let alone by serious, professional equipment. Sure, that is a pretty exacting specification for what I suppose is a big machine, but I'm pretty sure very normal things like say, car engines get made to far tighter tolerances.
        Retric 3y ago
        You messed up at your last step 1 millionth = 1mm, 10 millionth = 0.1mm, 100 millionth = 0.01mm 0.01mm is very difficult when you’re talking large custom objects with complex shapes.
        dale_glass 3y ago
        Oh, English fail on my part then. I had assumed that 100 millionths of a metre == 100 * 1/1000000.
        eis 3y ago
        The german site of the source speaks of 0.1mm so you were correct > bei Toleranzen von teilweise nur 0,1 Millimeter https://www.ipp.mpg.de/de/aktuelles/presse/pi/2020/01_20 https://www.ipp.mpg.de/de/aktuelles/presse/pi/2020/01_20
        Retric 3y ago
        No your correct, I just read it wrong. Really needed to pay attention to the s.
        starkrights 3y ago
        I think the original commenter is right- correct me if I missed what you’re getting at. Keeping it all in the same units until the end here: 1 millionth of 1 meter = (1 / 1,000,000)m = (1e-6m) 1 millionth * 100 = 100 millionths => (1e-6m) * 100 = (1e-4m) = 100 millionths (1e-4m) = .0001m | 1m = 1000mm => .0001m*1000 = .1mm
  - dylan604 3y ago
    >"Electromagnetic plasma containment folding" does sound like something a crazy person at a bus station would rant about. Or the very person that someone with a show like Art Bell would have as a guest.
- StackOverlord 3y ago
  > Dr. Ning Li of Huntsville, AL passed peacefully away on July 27, 2021. She was 79 years old. One of the world's leading scientists in super-conductivity anti-gravity. Dr. Li had constructed first 12" HTSD of the world in late 90s. https://www.berryhillfh.com/obituary/ning-li?lud=4CF765EE88E7526FCBA619C30101F7E6 https://www.berryhillfh.com/obituary/ning-li?lud=4CF765EE88E...
  - gabereiser 3y ago
    I just read a bunch of stuff about her from her son. About how he took care of her in her advanced years and her alzheimer's disease. Sad but also peculiar about her DoD work and how she "never talked about it". I wonder what it was? trying to get an alien craft working again? developing anti-gravity weapon? a ship? a hoverboard? please say it was a hoverboard. Her claim that "You can take a bowling ball and place it and it will stay." is fascinating. I would love to see footage/video of this. Small electro marbles and globes are one thing, a bowling ball or other large non-magnetic object!? man oh man!
waterheater 3y ago
I'm not that guy, but I can speak to what you're asking. I've followed Wendelstein 7-X for almost a decade. Nuclear fusion occurs at extremely-high temperatures. As you heat your fusion fuel to sufficiently-high temperatures to allow fusion, the matter transitions into a plasma, which is great: plasmas react to electromagnetic fields. As such, a major challenge with achieving viable nuclear fusion is making a vessel capable of holding the fusion reaction. Because we can't create on-demand gravity wells, the next best option for confinement is using electromagnetic fields to hold the plasma in the air. So, you now have an "electromagnetic bottle" capable of suspending a fusion reaction above the reactor's walls. Now, you have another issue: how do you ensure the fuel will sufficiently mix to sustain a fusion reaction? One approach is to move the plasma in a loop. The topologically-simplest method to accomplish this loop is the torus. Such a plasma-confinement device is called a tokamak. A tokamak uses two magnetic fields, torodial and polodial, to accomplish its task. The torodial field is driven through the plasma to push it forward, while the polodial field pulls the plasma in toward the center. Proper balance of these fields will allow the plasma to circuit the vessel following a helical path, achieving confinement. However, driving two separate magnetic fields is energy-intensive, and a successful fusion reactor will want to minimize its own power consumption to maximize the amount available for external usage. Enter the stellarator. The stellarator also drives the plasma around in a circle, it but uses a single magnetic field. How? It "tricks" the plasma into "thinking" there's only one magnetic field by using computer-optimized magnets with highly-complex geometries. This provides stellarators with a major engineering advantage over tokamaks and is a primary reason Wendelstein 7-X would have chosen it. With the confinement vessel topology largely identified, the next main step is to figure out how to build a vessel able to contain a sustained fusion reaction. For context, fusion experiments traditionally only operate on timescales of milliseconds to maybe a second. The reason? Fusion occurs at millions of degrees, and keeping the reaction vessel cool, ensuring a continuous supply of fuel, and dealing with reaction "exhaust" (e.g., alpha particles) and stray high-energy neutrons from the common deuterium-tritium reaction (which irradiate your reactor walls because neutrons don't react with electomagnetic fields) is a major, major engineering challenge. Any operational, net-positive fusion reactor must be able to operate for days, weeks, and months on end. What Wendelstein 7-X has been attempting to do for years is demonstrate that building such a vessel is even possible. Their overall goal is to sustain a fusion reaction for about 30 minutes. Such a timescale will show a proof-of-concept system which enables sustained fusion reactions to occur. Currently, the preferred fuel is deuterium-tritium because the fuel is generally available and has an attainable fusion temperature. The stray neutron issue can be mitigated by lining reactor walls with lithium to breed tritium fuel. Even better is to use the helium3-helium3 reaction, which completely annihilate to produce pure energy as the output (welcome to e=mc^2, enjoy your stay). The main holdups are: (1) the reaction occurs at much higher temperatures than deuterium-tritium, and (2) he(lium)3 is quite scarce on Earth. Once Wendelstein 7-X shows how to engineer a proper confinement vessel at a "lower" temperature, you can then work on the higher temperature levels required for he3-he3. Also, he3 is plentiful on the surface of the moon, so mining the surface of the moon will be performed to obtain the required fuel, which is the fundamental premise of the movie "Moon". Someone asked for information on electromagnetic plasma containment folding. I recommend reading up on magnetohydrodynamics (MHD). It's the mathematical and physical foundation of your interest.

Seconded. This is fascinating stuff and reminds me of some crazy rant some guy was telling me about anti-gravity and how electromagnetic “ribbons” could propel you. Obviously the guy was nuts, right? How would one go about learning more about electromagnetic plasma containment folding?

KyleBerezin 3y ago
Haha, no I am just some random guy who reads too many Wikipedia articles. "Electromagnetic plasma containment folding" does sound like something a crazy person at a bus station would rant about. My explanation was definitely over simplified, but I'm not knowledgable enough to go into detail on the topic. I can't even point you towards something to read on the topic since everything I read about it is like 15 years old at this point.
- tootie 3y ago
  If a Hollywood screenwriter were naming a crazy science device, they would come up with something like Wendelstien 7-X
  - tboughen 3y ago
    My favourite fact about it comes from https://phys.org/news/2016-02-plasma-physicist-discusses-wendelstein-x.amp https://phys.org/news/2016-02-plasma-physicist-discusses-wen... “…the supporting structure can only withstand the forces if the interfaces between the ten individual segments of the central rings, which weighs several tonnes, are built with a level of precision of less than 100 millionths of a metre…” - and they found a small family business in the north of Italy capable of doing this!
    - dale_glass 3y ago
      Odd units. 1 meter = 100 cm = 1000mm. So 1 millionth of a meter = 1/1000th of 1mm. thus, 100 millionths of a meter = 0.1mm, or ~4 thou in American units. Easily achievable by hobbyists, let alone by serious, professional equipment. Sure, that is a pretty exacting specification for what I suppose is a big machine, but I'm pretty sure very normal things like say, car engines get made to far tighter tolerances.
      - Retric 3y ago
        You messed up at your last step 1 millionth = 1mm, 10 millionth = 0.1mm, 100 millionth = 0.01mm 0.01mm is very difficult when you’re talking large custom objects with complex shapes.
        dale_glass 3y ago
        Oh, English fail on my part then. I had assumed that 100 millionths of a metre == 100 * 1/1000000.
        eis 3y ago
        The german site of the source speaks of 0.1mm so you were correct > bei Toleranzen von teilweise nur 0,1 Millimeter https://www.ipp.mpg.de/de/aktuelles/presse/pi/2020/01_20 https://www.ipp.mpg.de/de/aktuelles/presse/pi/2020/01_20
        Retric 3y ago
        No your correct, I just read it wrong. Really needed to pay attention to the s.
        starkrights 3y ago
        I think the original commenter is right- correct me if I missed what you’re getting at. Keeping it all in the same units until the end here: 1 millionth of 1 meter = (1 / 1,000,000)m = (1e-6m) 1 millionth * 100 = 100 millionths => (1e-6m) * 100 = (1e-4m) = 100 millionths (1e-4m) = .0001m | 1m = 1000mm => .0001m*1000 = .1mm
- dylan604 3y ago
  >"Electromagnetic plasma containment folding" does sound like something a crazy person at a bus station would rant about. Or the very person that someone with a show like Art Bell would have as a guest.
StackOverlord 3y ago
> Dr. Ning Li of Huntsville, AL passed peacefully away on July 27, 2021. She was 79 years old. One of the world's leading scientists in super-conductivity anti-gravity. Dr. Li had constructed first 12" HTSD of the world in late 90s. https://www.berryhillfh.com/obituary/ning-li?lud=4CF765EE88E7526FCBA619C30101F7E6 https://www.berryhillfh.com/obituary/ning-li?lud=4CF765EE88E...
- gabereiser 3y ago
  I just read a bunch of stuff about her from her son. About how he took care of her in her advanced years and her alzheimer's disease. Sad but also peculiar about her DoD work and how she "never talked about it". I wonder what it was? trying to get an alien craft working again? developing anti-gravity weapon? a ship? a hoverboard? please say it was a hoverboard. Her claim that "You can take a bowling ball and place it and it will stay." is fascinating. I would love to see footage/video of this. Small electro marbles and globes are one thing, a bowling ball or other large non-magnetic object!? man oh man!

waterheater 3y ago

I'm not that guy, but I can speak to what you're asking. I've followed Wendelstein 7-X for almost a decade. Nuclear fusion occurs at extremely-high temperatures. As you heat your fusion fuel to sufficiently-high temperatures to allow fusion, the matter transitions into a plasma, which is great: plasmas react to electromagnetic fields. As such, a major challenge with achieving viable nuclear fusion is making a vessel capable of holding the fusion reaction. Because we can't create on-demand gravity wells, the next best option for confinement is using electromagnetic fields to hold the plasma in the air. So, you now have an "electromagnetic bottle" capable of suspending a fusion reaction above the reactor's walls. Now, you have another issue: how do you ensure the fuel will sufficiently mix to sustain a fusion reaction? One approach is to move the plasma in a loop. The topologically-simplest method to accomplish this loop is the torus. Such a plasma-confinement device is called a tokamak. A tokamak uses two magnetic fields, torodial and polodial, to accomplish its task. The torodial field is driven through the plasma to push it forward, while the polodial field pulls the plasma in toward the center. Proper balance of these fields will allow the plasma to circuit the vessel following a helical path, achieving confinement. However, driving two separate magnetic fields is energy-intensive, and a successful fusion reactor will want to minimize its own power consumption to maximize the amount available for external usage. Enter the stellarator. The stellarator also drives the plasma around in a circle, it but uses a single magnetic field. How? It "tricks" the plasma into "thinking" there's only one magnetic field by using computer-optimized magnets with highly-complex geometries. This provides stellarators with a major engineering advantage over tokamaks and is a primary reason Wendelstein 7-X would have chosen it. With the confinement vessel topology largely identified, the next main step is to figure out how to build a vessel able to contain a sustained fusion reaction. For context, fusion experiments traditionally only operate on timescales of milliseconds to maybe a second. The reason? Fusion occurs at millions of degrees, and keeping the reaction vessel cool, ensuring a continuous supply of fuel, and dealing with reaction "exhaust" (e.g., alpha particles) and stray high-energy neutrons from the common deuterium-tritium reaction (which irradiate your reactor walls because neutrons don't react with electomagnetic fields) is a major, major engineering challenge. Any operational, net-positive fusion reactor must be able to operate for days, weeks, and months on end. What Wendelstein 7-X has been attempting to do for years is demonstrate that building such a vessel is even possible. Their overall goal is to sustain a fusion reaction for about 30 minutes. Such a timescale will show a proof-of-concept system which enables sustained fusion reactions to occur. Currently, the preferred fuel is deuterium-tritium because the fuel is generally available and has an attainable fusion temperature. The stray neutron issue can be mitigated by lining reactor walls with lithium to breed tritium fuel. Even better is to use the helium3-helium3 reaction, which completely annihilate to produce pure energy as the output (welcome to e=mc^2, enjoy your stay). The main holdups are: (1) the reaction occurs at much higher temperatures than deuterium-tritium, and (2) he(lium)3 is quite scarce on Earth. Once Wendelstein 7-X shows how to engineer a proper confinement vessel at a "lower" temperature, you can then work on the higher temperature levels required for he3-he3. Also, he3 is plentiful on the surface of the moon, so mining the surface of the moon will be performed to obtain the required fuel, which is the fundamental premise of the movie "Moon". Someone asked for information on electromagnetic plasma containment folding. I recommend reading up on magnetohydrodynamics (MHD). It's the mathematical and physical foundation of your interest.