5 ms·

cellphones? imho our generation cigarettes. studies will point that radiation are not harmful until they are.

by kome 3y ago

jdiff 3y ago
A hunch isn't science. Just because they're demonstrably harmful mentally doesn't mean they are physically.
ilyt 3y ago
You sound like my grandma lmao. If it was cellphones it would be easy to spot as places where they are closest to (left/right hip, head) would be ones with increased cancer rates
Turskarama 3y ago
If you actually look at how strong the radiation phones put out is, you'd realize there's basically no way. The power is at a maximum 3 watts, and is usually measured in milliwatts if you're somewhere with excellent reception. This is roughly on par with the amount of heat released while charging. Not fast charging mind you, charging with an old micro usb 5v charger. Compare this to a radio station which can transmit tens of kilowatts of power. If radio waves could cause cancer, people who work at radio stations would be riddled with it, and radio stations have been around a lot longer than phones.
- delhanty 3y ago
  Your analysis doesn’t account for the inverse square law. That is, wouldn’t we want to compare the radiant flux rather than the power?
  - Turskarama 3y ago
    You would yes, but I think you'll find that with with 4 orders of magnitude to play with the radio tower still comes out on top. Also how much time do you actually spend with the phone against your head on any given day? A few minutes maybe. Someone working at the radio station is there for 8 hours.
    - delhanty 3y ago
      My only point was that it’s misleading to compare power. I don’t have an opinion on whether mobile phone usage is more or less likely to cause cancer than working in a radio station.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Is power the only relevant variable? What about wavelength?
  - jdietrich 3y ago
    A photon emitted from a mobile phone antenna has about five orders of magnitude less energy than a photon of visible light. It just isn't plausible that such a relatively small number of relatively low-energy photons could have a meaningful impact on human heath, considering our overall exposure to electromagnetic radiation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum
  - aintgonnatakeit 3y ago
    Super important https://web.archive.org/web/20100708230258/http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ https://web.archive.org/web/20100708230258/http://people.csa...
  - pletnes 3y ago
    Sure. 3 Watts of gamma rays will do a different job. But a cell phone works in the microwave range - visible light, infrared, UV are all more dangerous - and the sun will blast you with 1 kW on a nice sunny day. Cell phones are not the problem (well, not the microwaves at least).
    - refurb 3y ago
      E = hf You can measure the energy of one photo using this equation. Microwaves at 2.45 Ghz = 1.6243499999999998e-24 eV Gamma radiation at 3 x 10(19) Hz = 1.9889999999999998e-14 eV So about 10(10) more energy per gamma ray photo or about 10 billion times more energy.
- Findecanor 3y ago
  It isn't necessarily that simple. I once came across a study that claimed that while the class of electromagnetic radiation associated with cell phones isn't able to cause a cancer mutation itself, there were indications that it could have the effect of suppressing the immune system's ability to fight cancers from other causes. I'm sorry I have lost the paper when upgrading my home PC over the years. I too would like to read follow-up studies, if there are any. If anyone reading this knows what paper I am talking about, please do reply.
Quarrelsome 3y ago
> imho our generation cigarettes Smoking prevalence has reduced dramatically in the past fifty years. If anything that should be a declining reason over the course of the last century.
- jpmoral 3y ago
  I think they meant that cellphones are our generation's equivalent of cigarettes.
saiya-jin 3y ago
You clearly didn't bother to read the article, did you (ie trend started in 90s if not earlier, also many of those are directly digestive system). Is anybody actually surprised? We eat crappier and crappier food, even basic stuff like vegetables is heavily modified, pumped directly with insecticides, herbicides, and drains from nearby farms that could contain literally anything. Most fish went from very healthy to questionable at best. We move much much less. We have more but are less happy and have more stressful lives. Race to bottom puts sugar into all processed foods just to make them more addictive. Microplastics. BPAs. PFOAs. And so on and on. The idea that somehow this would have 0 negative effect is a bit naive, no?
suprjami 3y ago
Learn how electromagnetism works: https://youtu.be/i4pxw4tYeCU https://youtu.be/i4pxw4tYeCU
dromtrund 3y ago
> studies will point that radiation are not harmful until they are. Smartphones might genuinely be a thing future generations will look at asking "what were you thinking?", but this argument is completely moot, as it could be used against literally anything. Studies will suggest that electricity is not harmful until it is. Studies will suggest that freedom of speech is not harmful until it is. Studies will suggest that touching grass is not harmful until it is.

cellphones? imho our generation cigarettes. studies will point that radiation are not harmful until they are.

by kome 3y ago

cellphones? imho our generation cigarettes. studies will point that radiation are not harmful until they are.

jdiff 3y ago

A hunch isn't science. Just because they're demonstrably harmful mentally doesn't mean they are physically.

ilyt 3y ago

You sound like my grandma lmao. If it was cellphones it would be easy to spot as places where they are closest to (left/right hip, head) would be ones with increased cancer rates

Turskarama 3y ago

If you actually look at how strong the radiation phones put out is, you'd realize there's basically no way. The power is at a maximum 3 watts, and is usually measured in milliwatts if you're somewhere with excellent reception. This is roughly on par with the amount of heat released while charging. Not fast charging mind you, charging with an old micro usb 5v charger. Compare this to a radio station which can transmit tens of kilowatts of power. If radio waves could cause cancer, people who work at radio stations would be riddled with it, and radio stations have been around a lot longer than phones.

delhanty 3y ago
Your analysis doesn’t account for the inverse square law. That is, wouldn’t we want to compare the radiant flux rather than the power?
- Turskarama 3y ago
  You would yes, but I think you'll find that with with 4 orders of magnitude to play with the radio tower still comes out on top. Also how much time do you actually spend with the phone against your head on any given day? A few minutes maybe. Someone working at the radio station is there for 8 hours.
  - delhanty 3y ago
    My only point was that it’s misleading to compare power. I don’t have an opinion on whether mobile phone usage is more or less likely to cause cancer than working in a radio station.
nonethewiser 3y ago
Is power the only relevant variable? What about wavelength?
- jdietrich 3y ago
  A photon emitted from a mobile phone antenna has about five orders of magnitude less energy than a photon of visible light. It just isn't plausible that such a relatively small number of relatively low-energy photons could have a meaningful impact on human heath, considering our overall exposure to electromagnetic radiation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum
- aintgonnatakeit 3y ago
  Super important https://web.archive.org/web/20100708230258/http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ https://web.archive.org/web/20100708230258/http://people.csa...
- pletnes 3y ago
  Sure. 3 Watts of gamma rays will do a different job. But a cell phone works in the microwave range - visible light, infrared, UV are all more dangerous - and the sun will blast you with 1 kW on a nice sunny day. Cell phones are not the problem (well, not the microwaves at least).
  - refurb 3y ago
    E = hf You can measure the energy of one photo using this equation. Microwaves at 2.45 Ghz = 1.6243499999999998e-24 eV Gamma radiation at 3 x 10(19) Hz = 1.9889999999999998e-14 eV So about 10(10) more energy per gamma ray photo or about 10 billion times more energy.
Findecanor 3y ago
It isn't necessarily that simple. I once came across a study that claimed that while the class of electromagnetic radiation associated with cell phones isn't able to cause a cancer mutation itself, there were indications that it could have the effect of suppressing the immune system's ability to fight cancers from other causes. I'm sorry I have lost the paper when upgrading my home PC over the years. I too would like to read follow-up studies, if there are any. If anyone reading this knows what paper I am talking about, please do reply.

Quarrelsome 3y ago

> imho our generation cigarettes Smoking prevalence has reduced dramatically in the past fifty years. If anything that should be a declining reason over the course of the last century.

jpmoral 3y ago
I think they meant that cellphones are our generation's equivalent of cigarettes.

saiya-jin 3y ago

You clearly didn't bother to read the article, did you (ie trend started in 90s if not earlier, also many of those are directly digestive system). Is anybody actually surprised? We eat crappier and crappier food, even basic stuff like vegetables is heavily modified, pumped directly with insecticides, herbicides, and drains from nearby farms that could contain literally anything. Most fish went from very healthy to questionable at best. We move much much less. We have more but are less happy and have more stressful lives. Race to bottom puts sugar into all processed foods just to make them more addictive. Microplastics. BPAs. PFOAs. And so on and on. The idea that somehow this would have 0 negative effect is a bit naive, no?

suprjami 3y ago

Learn how electromagnetism works: https://youtu.be/i4pxw4tYeCU https://youtu.be/i4pxw4tYeCU

dromtrund 3y ago

> studies will point that radiation are not harmful until they are. Smartphones might genuinely be a thing future generations will look at asking "what were you thinking?", but this argument is completely moot, as it could be used against literally anything. Studies will suggest that electricity is not harmful until it is. Studies will suggest that freedom of speech is not harmful until it is. Studies will suggest that touching grass is not harmful until it is.