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I feel like this is the most selfish thing ever. The only reason you're here enjoying these dopamine outlets is because someone decided to bring you into the wo

I feel like this is the most selfish thing ever. The only reason you're here enjoying these dopamine outlets is because someone decided to bring you into the world. We should pay it forward. Quite a few of my liberal friends are childless, which is odd because who's going to carry on their values?

Jyaif 3y ago
> who's going to carry on their values? It's natural selection, applied to values/religion/etc...
orwin 3y ago
Conservative's children! (it's a joke, sorry). Nobody owes you to make children. It's your own choice. But it's quite fun (and not that expensive in my country).
NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
I can understand selfishness. The part that is incomprehensibly bizarre to me is that the only long-term 100% positive experience in my life has been my children. I don't think it could possibly be otherwise. How do these people invert that so thoroughly, that they believe that it's not just negative from time to time, but overwhelmingly so and constantly? I hate to stoop to pop psychology, but that's some sort of profound multi-generational trauma going on, isn't it?
- igetspam 3y ago
  Why is your experience the only one? Congratulations on feeling good about your decision but you're not everyone and your opinion is narrow and selfish.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I think it is a fascinating question! Its not saying that there is only one possible experience, but asking where the pessimism is coming from.
    - the_only_law 3y ago
      > but asking where the pessimism is coming from. So are you stupid or blind? You can’t possibly thing of anything that would make people more pessimistic?
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        In the context of the rewards and satisfaction of being a parent, I think it is a valid question. People can either think "being a parent would be miserable" or "being a parent would be fun". The interesting question is what leads them to one conclusion or the other. In general, my life is pretty great and full of loving friends and family. I think my children's lives will be great too.
        igetspam 3y ago
        My parents sucked and half of them definitely didn't enjoy kids, despite having many. My wife's parents sucked and still suck. My kid's parents don't suck but my life is definitely not made more enjoyable anywhere near 100% of the time because I have a kid. It has moments but it's also a huge financial and time commitment. My wife and I would be better off financially without a child and her health would be far better. (Having a kid was the catalyst to many medical problems.) Do you have a support team that shares the load with you? We don't have anyone we can rely on. My in-law that does fly out sometimes would rather play with their phone than be a grandparent and we can't trust them to so much as drive a dog to the vet because we're sure they'd get distracted or lost or just crash. Kids are a ton of of work. Life is a ton of work. Combine those two things and have no "village" to speak of and it's often too much. There's no pop psychology needed to point out that for many people, kids aren't their best life. Kids aren't always rewarding. Sometimes the right answer is the easy answer: if you don't want kids, having one will not be a net positive for your life.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        As I said in a sibling comment, I don't think there is one correct choice for everyone. If someone doesn't want kids they probably shouldn't have them. However, like I said above, the interesting part of the question is the why. I think the lack of a village and support network is a very plausible answer. My friends that are the happiest with children also have a robust Village and social life which is supportive of raising children. This includes social activities that don't force adults to choose between parenting and personal enjoyment. This can be as simple dinner parties a couple times a week where one parent will watch The Children Play while everyone else takes a load off. I think another similar plausible explanation is a cultural expectation that parents replace their lives with that of their children opposed to integrating the children into their own lives. If parents like camping, travel, gardening, or reading, they should what they love with their kids. Fuck watching the wiggles or elmo 8 hours a day. That's insanity and needless suffering.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I have a few thoughts. Generation Z is the most risk adverse and cautious/fearful cohort of humans in US history. Even if parenting is on average extremally rewarding, it is also very scary at first and things can go very badly in some rare cases. You see all kinds of trends related to this, like declines in sex, dating, risky behaviors, ect. They are also one of the most pessimistic/cynical cohorts in general. Taken together, I think these trends have huge impacts on how people view parenting.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Quite a few of my liberal friends are childless, which is odd because who's going to carry on their values? Memetic continuity doesn’t require genetic continuity, and IME plenty of the people forgoing the latter are also putting considerable effort into the former.
- the_only_law 3y ago
  Unfortunately the average intelligence on third site seems to have sharply declined and they don’t know the difference.

Jyaif 3y ago

> who's going to carry on their values? It's natural selection, applied to values/religion/etc...

orwin 3y ago

Conservative's children! (it's a joke, sorry). Nobody owes you to make children. It's your own choice. But it's quite fun (and not that expensive in my country).

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

I can understand selfishness. The part that is incomprehensibly bizarre to me is that the only long-term 100% positive experience in my life has been my children. I don't think it could possibly be otherwise. How do these people invert that so thoroughly, that they believe that it's not just negative from time to time, but overwhelmingly so and constantly? I hate to stoop to pop psychology, but that's some sort of profound multi-generational trauma going on, isn't it?

igetspam 3y ago
Why is your experience the only one? Congratulations on feeling good about your decision but you're not everyone and your opinion is narrow and selfish.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I think it is a fascinating question! Its not saying that there is only one possible experience, but asking where the pessimism is coming from.
  - the_only_law 3y ago
    > but asking where the pessimism is coming from. So are you stupid or blind? You can’t possibly thing of anything that would make people more pessimistic?
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      In the context of the rewards and satisfaction of being a parent, I think it is a valid question. People can either think "being a parent would be miserable" or "being a parent would be fun". The interesting question is what leads them to one conclusion or the other. In general, my life is pretty great and full of loving friends and family. I think my children's lives will be great too.
      - igetspam 3y ago
        My parents sucked and half of them definitely didn't enjoy kids, despite having many. My wife's parents sucked and still suck. My kid's parents don't suck but my life is definitely not made more enjoyable anywhere near 100% of the time because I have a kid. It has moments but it's also a huge financial and time commitment. My wife and I would be better off financially without a child and her health would be far better. (Having a kid was the catalyst to many medical problems.) Do you have a support team that shares the load with you? We don't have anyone we can rely on. My in-law that does fly out sometimes would rather play with their phone than be a grandparent and we can't trust them to so much as drive a dog to the vet because we're sure they'd get distracted or lost or just crash. Kids are a ton of of work. Life is a ton of work. Combine those two things and have no "village" to speak of and it's often too much. There's no pop psychology needed to point out that for many people, kids aren't their best life. Kids aren't always rewarding. Sometimes the right answer is the easy answer: if you don't want kids, having one will not be a net positive for your life.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        As I said in a sibling comment, I don't think there is one correct choice for everyone. If someone doesn't want kids they probably shouldn't have them. However, like I said above, the interesting part of the question is the why. I think the lack of a village and support network is a very plausible answer. My friends that are the happiest with children also have a robust Village and social life which is supportive of raising children. This includes social activities that don't force adults to choose between parenting and personal enjoyment. This can be as simple dinner parties a couple times a week where one parent will watch The Children Play while everyone else takes a load off. I think another similar plausible explanation is a cultural expectation that parents replace their lives with that of their children opposed to integrating the children into their own lives. If parents like camping, travel, gardening, or reading, they should what they love with their kids. Fuck watching the wiggles or elmo 8 hours a day. That's insanity and needless suffering.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
I have a few thoughts. Generation Z is the most risk adverse and cautious/fearful cohort of humans in US history. Even if parenting is on average extremally rewarding, it is also very scary at first and things can go very badly in some rare cases. You see all kinds of trends related to this, like declines in sex, dating, risky behaviors, ect. They are also one of the most pessimistic/cynical cohorts in general. Taken together, I think these trends have huge impacts on how people view parenting.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Quite a few of my liberal friends are childless, which is odd because who's going to carry on their values? Memetic continuity doesn’t require genetic continuity, and IME plenty of the people forgoing the latter are also putting considerable effort into the former.

the_only_law 3y ago
Unfortunately the average intelligence on third site seems to have sharply declined and they don’t know the difference.