6 ms·

This is a hit piece with a divisive agenda. Patients vs. the health establishment. Us vs. them. I had to stop reading. I am not convinced this is widespread be

by acyou 3y ago

This is a hit piece with a divisive agenda. Patients vs. the health establishment. Us vs. them. I had to stop reading. I am not convinced this is widespread behavior. Yes, if I saw myself on social media without consent, I would go straight to the college or professional association with a privacy violation complaint. But this article is just trying to fuel hatred.

jbigelow76 3y ago
I am not convinced this is widespread behavior. How many does it take to be widespread (or more crucially, addressable) behavior, is it N+you? Yes, if I saw myself on social media without consent, I would go straight to the college or professional association with a privacy violation complaint. But this article is just trying to fuel hatred. Are there any release documents for doctors that you can cite that include a patient appearing, either knowingly or unknowingly, in social media? I know this sounds sarcastic because it's so ludicrous but if they exist I would like to know.
- ohdannyboy 3y ago
  This template would suggest such a release is trivial https://eforms.com/release/medical-hipaa/ https://eforms.com/release/medical-hipaa/ In fact I could see an unscrupulous doctor being able to write one vague enough to do it without the person knowing it's going to be in social media. No idea where that would go with ethics boards and such, though.
- leoedin 3y ago
  Traditional broadcasters have been making medical documentaries, which often show patients, for years. Presumably they've figured out bulletproof release documents. It's clearly not particularly hard to find people who will agree to be on TV for no obvious benefit to them.
  - soco 3y ago
    Around here I often see pixelated people in those documentaries, so where there's a will there's a way.
- oefrha 3y ago
  I don’t know about citable release forms, but there are certainly plastic surgery practices that will give you a discount for being able to use your photos for marketing.
ketzo 3y ago
I agree. It’s not like “doctor exploits position and the media for fame/notoriety/influence” is a particularly new story.
cush 3y ago
Same here. I know someone who had their surgery featured on a popular medtok channel. They signed a waiver and gave full consent.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Honestly I’d just want to know it was done so I could watch it, maybe they could add raw footage as a value add.
  - cush 3y ago
    Oh it was incredibly graphic.
verandaguy 3y ago
If it's a problem that seems to be growing in frequency, I find it completely fair to draw attention to the issue this way. Reinforce in medical professionals that patient privacy is crucial and that explicit, informed consent is not negotiable when it comes to sharing their stories on socials (with the exception of anonymised medical papers created for academic purposes).
camillomiller 3y ago
Agreed. In articles like this you could detail 20 cases which makes it feels like it’s a lot. Then you go see how much is actually 20 cases in comparison with all the ethical doctors on TikTok and you realize that it’s a really small percentage, almost negligible. And for those who do this and get caught (like for every other unethical or illegal behavior) the punishment is usually swift and clear, considering that in the medical profession you might not be indicted but you could still lose your license. So yes, hit piece with an agenda.
- CPLX 3y ago
  But honey have you considered all the coworkers that I met that I didn’t have sex with? In percentage terms my record is almost perfect.
  - camillomiller 3y ago
    Case has no ground, she signed a waiver during the wedding.
    - civilitty 3y ago
      Marriage certificates don’t count as a waiver anymore.
bogota 3y ago
We don’t need a hit piece anyone in the US shouldn’t be surprised by this. It’s the norm to deal with dismissive doctors and nurses saying inappropriate things about patients. That they are also exploiting patients for views is the least bad part about our current system. That i have to go to 5 doctors to even find one who will take the time to listen to my issue is the problem.
- sneak 3y ago
  There are a bunch of people who want to be doctors, a bunch of people who want to build hospitals and clinics, and a bunch of people who want prompt and affordable care. There are impediments to all of these groups doing what they need to do.
throwaway4good 3y ago
Agreed. Professionals like doctors in general have something to lose - it makes little sense for them to break patient confidentiality plus a number of laws to promote themselves on Instagram. On other hand the gazillion self taught quacks and wannabe influencers out there won't be bothered by morals and a few laws if the price is a thousand more followers.
- ronnykylin 3y ago
  So unfair that it's always the bad who make a mess but the good who have to pay for it.
  - thereisnojesus 3y ago
    [flagged]
DoreenMichele 3y ago
I am not convinced this is widespread behavior. It doesn't have to be widespread to do a lot of harm. The worst of the homeless -- street homeless, pushing stolen shopping carts -- are a tiny minority, but it's what everyone remembers. It harms both public perception of unhoused individuals and the way public policy regarding homelessness gets made.
Quinzel 3y ago
I work in operating rooms, and while I think you make a good point, I don’t entirely agree with your comment. I do think that healthcare professionals have a responsibility to be held accountable for their behaviour - and the social medical MedTok thing is disgusting, and ultimately bad for healthcare as an industry that is in the business of caring - because this is exploitation of people who are generally vulnerable in one way or another. I think using surgery/medical procedures for entertainment is unethical and irresponsible even if consent is given. Firstly in addition to privacy concerns, there is also concerns around being distracted while doing surgery, and infection control risks. For that reason, I don’t think any responsible healthcare practitioners that had their patients well-being at the forefront of their mind would be indulging in that kind of behaviour. However, I think there is a place for surgery to be shown to the general public, but from an educational perspective for both healthcare professionals that are learning, but also for people to know what happens to their bodies when they have surgery. It should not be some unknown exclusive mystery. (I think the mystery of it is what makes it appealing as a form of entertainment.) However, I think the sharing of medical procedures should be done responsibly, and accurately, and not for entertainment - which has a tendency to overdramatise things, or misrepresent things. My biggest daily drama in an operating room is actually often dealing with the anxiety patients have around coming in for their procedures because what they expect to happen is so warped by biased representation’s of what happens in operating rooms. I think the article does bring to light some issues in healthcare being used as a form of entertainment
- BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago
  your comment reminds me of this very dark comedy skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR76R4gaC48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR76R4gaC48
  - Quinzel 3y ago
    Yeah that was quite dark. Also though, there was a case of a surgeon using diathermy to brand his initials onto patients organs. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/13/doctor-branded-liver/# https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/13/doctor-bran... My personal experience is that some surgeons (definitely not all of them) are particularly prone to suffering from hubris - at which point they genuinely believe they can do anything they want and it’ll be fine, and god have mercy on anyone who tries to tell them they’re wrong.
throwawaylinux 3y ago
Maybe it only seems divisive depending on what side of the divide you find yourself. I've seen a lot of hateful, unhinged, divisive attacks from the health establishment on ordinary people in the past few years. Much of it cheered on by people in internet forums such as this one.
mandmandam 3y ago
> Patients vs. the health establishment. Us vs. them. Well, yeah; that's the point of the article. That doctors are publicly displaying this attitude on social media, and it's becoming more and more normalized. I've seen it. I've been victim to it. It's a real thing, causing real harm, and it's not talked about enough. There are systemic reasons for this, which are worth addressing and exploring, but don't need to be addressed in every article that touches on the subject. > this article is just trying to fuel hatred. I don't think that's a fair assessment. This is a real and widespread culture problem. You can see it for yourself, if you choose to. Casting doubt that this problem exists, while smearing (sourced and verified) pieces that address it as a "hit piece", is just sweeping a big problem under a very squishy rug.
whywhywhywhy 3y ago
> I am not convinced this is widespread behavior One is too many.
- LeifCarrotson 3y ago
  The problem with that attitude is what you do with the information that at least one out of 20 million (US) healthcare workers has committed a privacy infraction. Yes, it was wrong for that one person to do that. Yes, they should face appropriate consequences in order to attempt to make the victim whole, to change their own behavior, and to serve as a warning/deterrent to reduce the probability that their peers will make the same mistake. But one infraction does not mean that people should stop going to the doctor; that harm is a negligible, infinitesimal fraction of the benefit that medical professionals provide to our society. A news article warning about "Doctors on TikTok" will, at the margins, cause some people to not seek care they need, and can cause far more harm than one instance of this behavior.
deleted 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago
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drak0n1c 3y ago
I have a couple doctor friends, and they on occasion share to a private group chat anonymized screenshots of humorous patient intakes and reports, and retell stories of the amusing situations they get into and patients they encounter. There's also some tales of drama between staff and how silly some of their mandatory racial/gender/body-positivity seminars are. They're otherwise more diligent and ethically minded than their coworkers in how they attend to patients and happen to be very progressive politically. I believe they see it as irreverent gossip about work just like any other profession, although sometimes to me it seems like TMI. It doesn't shock me though, my grandfather told me stories of how at NYU Medical & Dentistry school he and other students in the late 1930s would prank subway-goers by leaving a purse with a cadaver body part inside. While gossip to private circles may be widespread, I am unsure if public sharing is.
- lp0_on_fire 3y ago
  I can tell you right now that if I found out I was a patient of one of your doctor friends whose medical information was shared, even anonymized, with their friend circle for a laugh I'd be furious and looking for heads to roll. That abject hubris of that is astounding.

by acyou 3y ago

jbigelow76 3y ago

I am not convinced this is widespread behavior. How many does it take to be widespread (or more crucially, addressable) behavior, is it N+you? Yes, if I saw myself on social media without consent, I would go straight to the college or professional association with a privacy violation complaint. But this article is just trying to fuel hatred. Are there any release documents for doctors that you can cite that include a patient appearing, either knowingly or unknowingly, in social media? I know this sounds sarcastic because it's so ludicrous but if they exist I would like to know.

ohdannyboy 3y ago
This template would suggest such a release is trivial https://eforms.com/release/medical-hipaa/ https://eforms.com/release/medical-hipaa/ In fact I could see an unscrupulous doctor being able to write one vague enough to do it without the person knowing it's going to be in social media. No idea where that would go with ethics boards and such, though.
leoedin 3y ago
Traditional broadcasters have been making medical documentaries, which often show patients, for years. Presumably they've figured out bulletproof release documents. It's clearly not particularly hard to find people who will agree to be on TV for no obvious benefit to them.
- soco 3y ago
  Around here I often see pixelated people in those documentaries, so where there's a will there's a way.
oefrha 3y ago
I don’t know about citable release forms, but there are certainly plastic surgery practices that will give you a discount for being able to use your photos for marketing.

ketzo 3y ago

I agree. It’s not like “doctor exploits position and the media for fame/notoriety/influence” is a particularly new story.

cush 3y ago

Same here. I know someone who had their surgery featured on a popular medtok channel. They signed a waiver and gave full consent.

bombcar 3y ago
Honestly I’d just want to know it was done so I could watch it, maybe they could add raw footage as a value add.
- cush 3y ago
  Oh it was incredibly graphic.

verandaguy 3y ago

If it's a problem that seems to be growing in frequency, I find it completely fair to draw attention to the issue this way. Reinforce in medical professionals that patient privacy is crucial and that explicit, informed consent is not negotiable when it comes to sharing their stories on socials (with the exception of anonymised medical papers created for academic purposes).

camillomiller 3y ago

Agreed. In articles like this you could detail 20 cases which makes it feels like it’s a lot. Then you go see how much is actually 20 cases in comparison with all the ethical doctors on TikTok and you realize that it’s a really small percentage, almost negligible. And for those who do this and get caught (like for every other unethical or illegal behavior) the punishment is usually swift and clear, considering that in the medical profession you might not be indicted but you could still lose your license. So yes, hit piece with an agenda.

CPLX 3y ago
But honey have you considered all the coworkers that I met that I didn’t have sex with? In percentage terms my record is almost perfect.
- camillomiller 3y ago
  Case has no ground, she signed a waiver during the wedding.
  - civilitty 3y ago
    Marriage certificates don’t count as a waiver anymore.

bogota 3y ago

We don’t need a hit piece anyone in the US shouldn’t be surprised by this. It’s the norm to deal with dismissive doctors and nurses saying inappropriate things about patients. That they are also exploiting patients for views is the least bad part about our current system. That i have to go to 5 doctors to even find one who will take the time to listen to my issue is the problem.

sneak 3y ago
There are a bunch of people who want to be doctors, a bunch of people who want to build hospitals and clinics, and a bunch of people who want prompt and affordable care. There are impediments to all of these groups doing what they need to do.

throwaway4good 3y ago

Agreed. Professionals like doctors in general have something to lose - it makes little sense for them to break patient confidentiality plus a number of laws to promote themselves on Instagram. On other hand the gazillion self taught quacks and wannabe influencers out there won't be bothered by morals and a few laws if the price is a thousand more followers.

ronnykylin 3y ago
So unfair that it's always the bad who make a mess but the good who have to pay for it.
- thereisnojesus 3y ago
  [flagged]

DoreenMichele 3y ago

I am not convinced this is widespread behavior. It doesn't have to be widespread to do a lot of harm. The worst of the homeless -- street homeless, pushing stolen shopping carts -- are a tiny minority, but it's what everyone remembers. It harms both public perception of unhoused individuals and the way public policy regarding homelessness gets made.

Quinzel 3y ago

I work in operating rooms, and while I think you make a good point, I don’t entirely agree with your comment. I do think that healthcare professionals have a responsibility to be held accountable for their behaviour - and the social medical MedTok thing is disgusting, and ultimately bad for healthcare as an industry that is in the business of caring - because this is exploitation of people who are generally vulnerable in one way or another. I think using surgery/medical procedures for entertainment is unethical and irresponsible even if consent is given. Firstly in addition to privacy concerns, there is also concerns around being distracted while doing surgery, and infection control risks. For that reason, I don’t think any responsible healthcare practitioners that had their patients well-being at the forefront of their mind would be indulging in that kind of behaviour. However, I think there is a place for surgery to be shown to the general public, but from an educational perspective for both healthcare professionals that are learning, but also for people to know what happens to their bodies when they have surgery. It should not be some unknown exclusive mystery. (I think the mystery of it is what makes it appealing as a form of entertainment.) However, I think the sharing of medical procedures should be done responsibly, and accurately, and not for entertainment - which has a tendency to overdramatise things, or misrepresent things. My biggest daily drama in an operating room is actually often dealing with the anxiety patients have around coming in for their procedures because what they expect to happen is so warped by biased representation’s of what happens in operating rooms. I think the article does bring to light some issues in healthcare being used as a form of entertainment

BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago
your comment reminds me of this very dark comedy skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR76R4gaC48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR76R4gaC48
- Quinzel 3y ago
  Yeah that was quite dark. Also though, there was a case of a surgeon using diathermy to brand his initials onto patients organs. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/13/doctor-branded-liver/# https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/13/doctor-bran... My personal experience is that some surgeons (definitely not all of them) are particularly prone to suffering from hubris - at which point they genuinely believe they can do anything they want and it’ll be fine, and god have mercy on anyone who tries to tell them they’re wrong.

throwawaylinux 3y ago

Maybe it only seems divisive depending on what side of the divide you find yourself. I've seen a lot of hateful, unhinged, divisive attacks from the health establishment on ordinary people in the past few years. Much of it cheered on by people in internet forums such as this one.

mandmandam 3y ago

> Patients vs. the health establishment. Us vs. them. Well, yeah; that's the point of the article. That doctors are publicly displaying this attitude on social media, and it's becoming more and more normalized. I've seen it. I've been victim to it. It's a real thing, causing real harm, and it's not talked about enough. There are systemic reasons for this, which are worth addressing and exploring, but don't need to be addressed in every article that touches on the subject. > this article is just trying to fuel hatred. I don't think that's a fair assessment. This is a real and widespread culture problem. You can see it for yourself, if you choose to. Casting doubt that this problem exists, while smearing (sourced and verified) pieces that address it as a "hit piece", is just sweeping a big problem under a very squishy rug.

whywhywhywhy 3y ago

> I am not convinced this is widespread behavior One is too many.

LeifCarrotson 3y ago
The problem with that attitude is what you do with the information that at least one out of 20 million (US) healthcare workers has committed a privacy infraction. Yes, it was wrong for that one person to do that. Yes, they should face appropriate consequences in order to attempt to make the victim whole, to change their own behavior, and to serve as a warning/deterrent to reduce the probability that their peers will make the same mistake. But one infraction does not mean that people should stop going to the doctor; that harm is a negligible, infinitesimal fraction of the benefit that medical professionals provide to our society. A news article warning about "Doctors on TikTok" will, at the margins, cause some people to not seek care they need, and can cause far more harm than one instance of this behavior.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

drak0n1c 3y ago

I have a couple doctor friends, and they on occasion share to a private group chat anonymized screenshots of humorous patient intakes and reports, and retell stories of the amusing situations they get into and patients they encounter. There's also some tales of drama between staff and how silly some of their mandatory racial/gender/body-positivity seminars are. They're otherwise more diligent and ethically minded than their coworkers in how they attend to patients and happen to be very progressive politically. I believe they see it as irreverent gossip about work just like any other profession, although sometimes to me it seems like TMI. It doesn't shock me though, my grandfather told me stories of how at NYU Medical & Dentistry school he and other students in the late 1930s would prank subway-goers by leaving a purse with a cadaver body part inside. While gossip to private circles may be widespread, I am unsure if public sharing is.

lp0_on_fire 3y ago
I can tell you right now that if I found out I was a patient of one of your doctor friends whose medical information was shared, even anonymized, with their friend circle for a laugh I'd be furious and looking for heads to roll. That abject hubris of that is astounding.