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> I'm fairly sure why Russians are arrested in the USA is fairly unrelated to them being Russian. It's often spying accusations for individuals or sanctions re

> I'm fairly sure why Russians are arrested in the USA is fairly unrelated to them being Russian. It's often spying accusations for individuals or sanctions related for businesspeople, so... > Russians also get arrested in China Of course. Everyone gets arrested everywhere from time to time. My point that China isn't in any way unique in this matter. > In general, prefer rule of law countries and avoid rule by law countries if you are worried about fair treatment. Not to call out on a bad advice, but as a tourist I personally prefer "no one cares about you once you've passed customs, just don't be evil" countries. I'd rather talk my way out of an awkward situation, than risk getting in a "rule of law" trouble for accidentally making a wrong turn and breaking a vague traffic rule on an empty road. On the other hand, as a traveller, every new country is a good country. In principle though, see my comment in the neighboring thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37071541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37071541

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
People get arrested for lots of things, sometimes it is taking pictures that they shouldn't take, but had no idea that they couldn't take those pictures. In China, you can get arrested for taking pictures of pretty much anywhere, subject to whims of course (they can't put all tourists in prison or they would have no tourist industry). In America, you can take pictures of anything you want as long as you are allowed to be there. Some Chinese guy could (and often do!) take a picture of an Aircraft Carrier in port in San Diego and not go to jail for spying, while some American guy doing the same thing in Qingdao is in huge trouble if the police decide to bother. This is in a perfectly touristy place, where you could just be taking pictures of scenery or something. The only issue is when you gain access to somewhere you aren't supposed to be (say a military base) and start taking pictures; e.g. https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdfl/pr/three-chinese-nationals-sentenced-prison-illegal-photography-us-naval-installation-key https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdfl/pr/three-chinese-nationals.... In that case, the judge is going to take into account if they knew they were in an naval air station or not (rather than strolling along the road in San Diego). > Not to call out on a bad advice, but as a tourist I personally prefer "no one cares about you once you've passed customs, just don't be evil" countries. I'd rather talk my way out of an awkward situation, than risk getting in a "rule of law" trouble for accidentally making a wrong turn and breaking a vague traffic rule on an empty road. At least go to countries where the laws aren't considered state secrets. Because if what they can get you for is a secret, you are screwed (but in general, you are screwed anyways, because laws in those countries are just tools anyways). And yes, don't be an evil jerk and 99.9% of the time nothing is happening to you, but in the USA you usually just need a good lawyer while in China you are at the mercy of whether the local party official wants to make an example of you or not. Anyways, if you are afraid of rule of law, don't go to Singapore. They will fine you a few thousand dollars for making that wrong turn, or stopping at the wrong time...etc...the exact opposite of China actually.
- foverzar 3y ago
  On the other hand, making an unconscious wrong move when interacting with a cop in America can legally get you killed on spot. My whole point is that it is entirely subjectivist and boils down to whatever people are used to. If you want everything to be the way you are used to - maybe traveling just isn't your thing and that's ok.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I spent 9 years living in China, not traveling, so I know what I’m getting myself into. It isn’t just what people are used to, there are significant differences. For however dangerous American cops are, china is the only place I actually saw someone die before (in a traffic accident, the secret to having a safe trip to China is to be careful crossing the street and don’t run red lights on your bike) China is worse now than it was in 2007 when I moved there. They had a huge backslide in liberalization after the Olympics, which got worse with Xi (who, as you know, is now president for life). Now it’s like 1999 again.
    - foverzar 3y ago
      > It isn’t just what people are used to, there are significant differences. But that's the whole point! I don't understand this sensationalism, tbh.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

People get arrested for lots of things, sometimes it is taking pictures that they shouldn't take, but had no idea that they couldn't take those pictures. In China, you can get arrested for taking pictures of pretty much anywhere, subject to whims of course (they can't put all tourists in prison or they would have no tourist industry). In America, you can take pictures of anything you want as long as you are allowed to be there. Some Chinese guy could (and often do!) take a picture of an Aircraft Carrier in port in San Diego and not go to jail for spying, while some American guy doing the same thing in Qingdao is in huge trouble if the police decide to bother. This is in a perfectly touristy place, where you could just be taking pictures of scenery or something. The only issue is when you gain access to somewhere you aren't supposed to be (say a military base) and start taking pictures; e.g. https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdfl/pr/three-chinese-nationals-sentenced-prison-illegal-photography-us-naval-installation-key https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdfl/pr/three-chinese-nationals.... In that case, the judge is going to take into account if they knew they were in an naval air station or not (rather than strolling along the road in San Diego). > Not to call out on a bad advice, but as a tourist I personally prefer "no one cares about you once you've passed customs, just don't be evil" countries. I'd rather talk my way out of an awkward situation, than risk getting in a "rule of law" trouble for accidentally making a wrong turn and breaking a vague traffic rule on an empty road. At least go to countries where the laws aren't considered state secrets. Because if what they can get you for is a secret, you are screwed (but in general, you are screwed anyways, because laws in those countries are just tools anyways). And yes, don't be an evil jerk and 99.9% of the time nothing is happening to you, but in the USA you usually just need a good lawyer while in China you are at the mercy of whether the local party official wants to make an example of you or not. Anyways, if you are afraid of rule of law, don't go to Singapore. They will fine you a few thousand dollars for making that wrong turn, or stopping at the wrong time...etc...the exact opposite of China actually.

foverzar 3y ago
On the other hand, making an unconscious wrong move when interacting with a cop in America can legally get you killed on spot. My whole point is that it is entirely subjectivist and boils down to whatever people are used to. If you want everything to be the way you are used to - maybe traveling just isn't your thing and that's ok.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I spent 9 years living in China, not traveling, so I know what I’m getting myself into. It isn’t just what people are used to, there are significant differences. For however dangerous American cops are, china is the only place I actually saw someone die before (in a traffic accident, the secret to having a safe trip to China is to be careful crossing the street and don’t run red lights on your bike) China is worse now than it was in 2007 when I moved there. They had a huge backslide in liberalization after the Olympics, which got worse with Xi (who, as you know, is now president for life). Now it’s like 1999 again.
  - foverzar 3y ago
    > It isn’t just what people are used to, there are significant differences. But that's the whole point! I don't understand this sensationalism, tbh.