7 ms·

There is very thin line, alas. And it goes to same old "were you really happy to use taxi before uber". In 2 countries where I did live and in many where I used

by galkk 3y ago

There is very thin line, alas. And it goes to same old "were you really happy to use taxi before uber". In 2 countries where I did live and in many where I used just them, I wasn't happy. Taxis were as unreliable and untrusworthy and they could be - unpredictable prices, you never know if it will actually come even if company accepted your request, shady city navigation when pay by meter etc. So I'm all for company like Uber to be able to cut such bad actors very fast to be able to provide good service for customers. But that ability seems like quickly and universally degrades to "we own you and your schedule" attitude by ubers of the world

eganist 3y ago
> [Ubers] are as unreliable and untrusworthy and they could be - unpredictable prices, you never know if it will actually come even if company accepted your request etc. Seriously, the number of times I've seen cancellations because the Uber didn't want to go in that direction or that neighborhood... or had unreal surge pricing applied, etc. And that's today, so I doubt the Seattle change will make much of a difference. Many (not necessarily most. I don't have that data) drivers game the system in its current state.
- noirbot 3y ago
  Sure, but that's somewhat unavoidable. It's not as if cab drivers didn't discriminate on their fares before Uber, or inflate/make up prices via all kinds of underhanded means. Uber and the like are getting worse, but they're just coming down to the level the taxi industry has been at for most of the last century.
  - vkou 3y ago
    So, I can pay dramatically more than a taxi, to get the same level of shitty service, so Uber will take home the bulk of that price spread? I'm not sure how that's a win for anyone other then Uber, and I'm fine with them being legislated out of existence.
    - noirbot 3y ago
      Sure, if you're somewhere where Uber is as available as a Taxi and charging more, then you should be hiring taxis if that's your experience. In my experience, Uber is still a bit cheaper than the taxis I've hired and a better experience. I find it hard to believe that most people find Uber to be a equal or worse experience that they're paying "dramatically more" for, but still buy it anyway. It's also not as if the Taxi companies aren't taking home the bulk of the profits in the old system. It's bad all the way around.
  - nerdponx 3y ago
    > Sure, but that's somewhat unavoidable. It's not as if cab drivers didn't discriminate on their fares before Uber, or inflate/make up prices via all kinds of underhanded means. In many places (e.g. New York City) taxis are regulated and this behavior is illegal. The main improvement of Uber in NYC was that actually hailing a cab can be difficult in remote areas or during busy hours, and Uber solved that problem.
    - IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
      >>>In many places (e.g. New York City) taxis are regulated and this behavior is illegal. I see your illegal and I raise you a 'no legal body gives a hoot' Sincerely, - A fare that has been refused a ride to an odd location, a dozen times. (TGIB - thank god its uber coming to get me today.) (I picked a cab due to low battery, who charged me 40% standard uber fare. Nice reminder to my wallet to never get cabs on the street )
      - nerdponx 3y ago
        I've had the opposite experience. Exactly once I had a cab driver try to mess with me about fare (I told him to turn on the f'ing meter or you're going to have some big problems). For going to an odd location, once in a while I've had a problem in Manhattan where the drivers are all heading home for the evening and they won't do trips that are "out of their way". But it was about the same frequency as Uber canceling (or hovering nearby waiting for you to cancel).
- jmckib 3y ago
  Yes, Uber drivers are constantly canceling rides or just sitting in one spot until I’m forced to cancel myself and then dispute the charge. Thankfully Lyft still exists, I’ve switched to them and haven’t looked back. I can get to where I need to go much faster and more reliably, at roughly the same price or often less.
edgyquant 3y ago
Yes because Uber didn’t have to actually compete with taxis. They offered a nicer service at a cheap cost and both of these things were an illusion. The price was subsidized and the drivers weren’t required (at the time) to meet any of the regulations that apply to drivers or third party passengers (for good reasons.) So they replaced one crappy service with another that has a better UX. All other benefits seem to have vanished when forced to actually make money and we’ve seen a ton of rationale for the existing regulations in the process. Similar to Airbnb
- admax88qqq 3y ago
  Uber still provides a better service for me in areas where I can use it. It's not as cheap, but in the cities I live and travel to taxis are still sketchy and unreliable compared to Uber. Edit: honestly what is the rationale for the existing regulation? I see the arguments for regulation around employee protection. But a lot of the licensing regulations seem designed to enforce artificial scarcity and restrict competition. The medallion system in NYC comes to mind. The value of an NYC medallion was insane pre Uber, there's no good reason for that. Some of the licensing was clearly regulatory capture by existing taxi companies.
- noirbot 3y ago
  I don't disagree with most of that, and I generally try not to use Uber or Lyft these days, but "replace a crappy service with a crappy service with better UX" is... not a bad business model. Almost every time I've taken a normal cab, the car was worse than every Uber I've ever been in, they tried to bully me into paying cash, and half of the time there was a screen in the car showing me ads non-stop, and it still cost more. I had essentially sworn off of taxis, or even visiting cities where I would need to get a taxi. For all of their supposed regulation, there was almost no other industry I wanted to interact with less. Uber had a really low bar to clear, and even at increased prices, I'm unsure if it would drive me back to cabs.
- lr4444lr 3y ago
  Surprising to some, perhaps, but the average Uber ride did not end in violence or a vehicular accident injuring people that had to be prevented by regulation. To the dismay perhaps of taxi/limousine commissioners, the average driver was a relatively decent human being who - given the preexisting apparatus in place to license drivers - did a good job, and cared about his car and his rating on the app to continue to do so. What happened for decades in cities like New York where taxi medallions were so expensive you could retire on their sale was big tech disrupting a dysfunction at its best. As for the cost, I didn't lose any sleep at night worrying that I was subsidized by Saudi Royal Family money. When the prices went up, it was never at a rate much worse than a cab.
anyfoo 3y ago
Probably everyone who has used a Taxi in Germany in the past can tell you how professional, knowledgeable, and safe Taxis were there, and that came through very strong regulations. Getting a taxi concession was no joke. You literally had to study on the layout of the city. And given that those are European cities, there is no grid system. You also had to know about safety and take first aid courses. Additionally, taxis require special inspection on top of the rigid inspections necessary for cars in Germany (you wouldn’t want to endanger people with a rust bucket on the autobahn). So yes, they were exceptionally safe. Taxis are mostly Mercedes in Germany, as traditionally Mercedes had the most experience with taxis, and the proper programs in place for taxi use. When I see a Mercedes E wagon on a freeway, I still think "taxi" (like some think police car when they see a Crown Victoria). Source: There was a time where I took a taxi almost every day in Germany, and a close family member owns a German taxi concession for many decades now. Lyft+Uber are an absolute joke in comparison. (I talk mostly in the past tense, because I haven’t lived in Germany for long now. I don’t know whether the gig economy damaged the enormous quality of taxis over there.)
- xrd 3y ago
  100% this. I used to love to go to NYC and ride in the taxis. Such interesting people. Now, I get into a car and have to pretend I'm happy there are mints because they don't want to be poorly reviewed. When no one had to care about reviews, people could be real, and occasionally uncomfortable, but always authentic. Those days are long gone and fuck Uber for destroying that.
  - bogota 3y ago
    Yeah and outside of NYC and a few other cities you just ended up stranded because one never showed up or more likely people just drove drunk.
  - meowtimemania 3y ago
    All my pre-uber memories of taxis in NYC are negative. The drivers drive super crazy, accelerating and breaking a ton because the meter pays them a higher rate if they hit a certain speed. I enjoy uber much more and still meet interesting people.
sgregnt 3y ago
When I was in college and didnt have a car, UBER is one of these things that have improved my quality of live like no other thing. If not for UBER, I would have a miserable existence. Long live UBER.
devjab 3y ago
In Denmark we sort of made it illegal for gig drivers, not for food delivery (unfortunately) but what the “scare” did to taxis was it made them get the same Apps that Uber has. So now taking a taxi comes with most of the benefits of having Uber, while also having all the benefits that come with the rather highly regulated industry of taxi services. I guess it’s more expensive, but then, does Uber make money? Because if they don’t, then when will it disappear?
- meowtimemania 3y ago
  Uber is making money the last few quarters. I think Uber never made money historically in the same way Amazon never made money.
kelnos 3y ago
It depends on where you live, of course. Pre-Uber, I would use taxis when visiting NYC all the time. It was fine; taxis were all over the place, and hailing one was easy. Hotels and some higher-end restaurants would even help line one up for you. Drivers were all over the map, though: some were quiet, some loud, some annoying, some offensive. Most drivers drove aggressively. Some cars were clean, some dirty. The credit card machine was usually "broken" (wink, wink). No good way to get any of this feedback acted on. In SF (where I've lived since pre-Uber times), taxis were useless. There was pretty much nowhere in the city where you could reliably flag one down. You could call a dispatcher, but the standard answer was "a taxi will pick you up in 20 minutes", and then at least half the time they'd never show up. The rest of the time it'd take at least twice that amount of time. So I walked or took transit when I had the extra time in my schedule, or I drove. Which sucked in many ways, as parking is annoying in SF, and if I'm going out to drink, it means either carefully controlling how much I drink, and leaving some buffer time at the end of the night to sober up, or leaving my car wherever it is, and hoping I don't get a parking ticket in the morning (a hope that failed often enough to get expensive). Nowadays I still walk or take transit as much as possible, but I hardly ever drive in the city. Uber/Lyft have completely filled this void. As much as their business practices have been terrible, there's nothing else that fills their niche. > So I'm all for company like Uber to be able to cut such bad actors very fast to be able to provide good service for customers. The problem with this is that there's no due process. Some disgruntled rider can be an asshole and rate a driver with 1 star, with a comment about feeling unsafe, and that's it, even if the driver didn't do anything wrong. How is that fair?
m463 3y ago
> unpredictable prices I find pricing very variable with uber. Meanwhile, taxis have always had predictable pricing based on tariffs. Honestly, I think the answer usually is in robust competition. thing is, with this brave new world of purchasing services through apps and websites, competition is not assured. You will have a very difficult time fighting through the gauntlet of adtech and dark patterns, you might have a hard time getting a fair deal. Do people really get fair pricing getting a hotel, a plane ticket, a rental car, a tow truck or an emergency plumber anymore?

by galkk 3y ago

eganist 3y ago

> [Ubers] are as unreliable and untrusworthy and they could be - unpredictable prices, you never know if it will actually come even if company accepted your request etc. Seriously, the number of times I've seen cancellations because the Uber didn't want to go in that direction or that neighborhood... or had unreal surge pricing applied, etc. And that's today, so I doubt the Seattle change will make much of a difference. Many (not necessarily most. I don't have that data) drivers game the system in its current state.

noirbot 3y ago
Sure, but that's somewhat unavoidable. It's not as if cab drivers didn't discriminate on their fares before Uber, or inflate/make up prices via all kinds of underhanded means. Uber and the like are getting worse, but they're just coming down to the level the taxi industry has been at for most of the last century.
- vkou 3y ago
  So, I can pay dramatically more than a taxi, to get the same level of shitty service, so Uber will take home the bulk of that price spread? I'm not sure how that's a win for anyone other then Uber, and I'm fine with them being legislated out of existence.
  - noirbot 3y ago
    Sure, if you're somewhere where Uber is as available as a Taxi and charging more, then you should be hiring taxis if that's your experience. In my experience, Uber is still a bit cheaper than the taxis I've hired and a better experience. I find it hard to believe that most people find Uber to be a equal or worse experience that they're paying "dramatically more" for, but still buy it anyway. It's also not as if the Taxi companies aren't taking home the bulk of the profits in the old system. It's bad all the way around.
- nerdponx 3y ago
  > Sure, but that's somewhat unavoidable. It's not as if cab drivers didn't discriminate on their fares before Uber, or inflate/make up prices via all kinds of underhanded means. In many places (e.g. New York City) taxis are regulated and this behavior is illegal. The main improvement of Uber in NYC was that actually hailing a cab can be difficult in remote areas or during busy hours, and Uber solved that problem.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
    >>>In many places (e.g. New York City) taxis are regulated and this behavior is illegal. I see your illegal and I raise you a 'no legal body gives a hoot' Sincerely, - A fare that has been refused a ride to an odd location, a dozen times. (TGIB - thank god its uber coming to get me today.) (I picked a cab due to low battery, who charged me 40% standard uber fare. Nice reminder to my wallet to never get cabs on the street )
    - nerdponx 3y ago
      I've had the opposite experience. Exactly once I had a cab driver try to mess with me about fare (I told him to turn on the f'ing meter or you're going to have some big problems). For going to an odd location, once in a while I've had a problem in Manhattan where the drivers are all heading home for the evening and they won't do trips that are "out of their way". But it was about the same frequency as Uber canceling (or hovering nearby waiting for you to cancel).
jmckib 3y ago
Yes, Uber drivers are constantly canceling rides or just sitting in one spot until I’m forced to cancel myself and then dispute the charge. Thankfully Lyft still exists, I’ve switched to them and haven’t looked back. I can get to where I need to go much faster and more reliably, at roughly the same price or often less.

edgyquant 3y ago

Yes because Uber didn’t have to actually compete with taxis. They offered a nicer service at a cheap cost and both of these things were an illusion. The price was subsidized and the drivers weren’t required (at the time) to meet any of the regulations that apply to drivers or third party passengers (for good reasons.) So they replaced one crappy service with another that has a better UX. All other benefits seem to have vanished when forced to actually make money and we’ve seen a ton of rationale for the existing regulations in the process. Similar to Airbnb

admax88qqq 3y ago
Uber still provides a better service for me in areas where I can use it. It's not as cheap, but in the cities I live and travel to taxis are still sketchy and unreliable compared to Uber. Edit: honestly what is the rationale for the existing regulation? I see the arguments for regulation around employee protection. But a lot of the licensing regulations seem designed to enforce artificial scarcity and restrict competition. The medallion system in NYC comes to mind. The value of an NYC medallion was insane pre Uber, there's no good reason for that. Some of the licensing was clearly regulatory capture by existing taxi companies.
noirbot 3y ago
I don't disagree with most of that, and I generally try not to use Uber or Lyft these days, but "replace a crappy service with a crappy service with better UX" is... not a bad business model. Almost every time I've taken a normal cab, the car was worse than every Uber I've ever been in, they tried to bully me into paying cash, and half of the time there was a screen in the car showing me ads non-stop, and it still cost more. I had essentially sworn off of taxis, or even visiting cities where I would need to get a taxi. For all of their supposed regulation, there was almost no other industry I wanted to interact with less. Uber had a really low bar to clear, and even at increased prices, I'm unsure if it would drive me back to cabs.
lr4444lr 3y ago
Surprising to some, perhaps, but the average Uber ride did not end in violence or a vehicular accident injuring people that had to be prevented by regulation. To the dismay perhaps of taxi/limousine commissioners, the average driver was a relatively decent human being who - given the preexisting apparatus in place to license drivers - did a good job, and cared about his car and his rating on the app to continue to do so. What happened for decades in cities like New York where taxi medallions were so expensive you could retire on their sale was big tech disrupting a dysfunction at its best. As for the cost, I didn't lose any sleep at night worrying that I was subsidized by Saudi Royal Family money. When the prices went up, it was never at a rate much worse than a cab.

anyfoo 3y ago

Probably everyone who has used a Taxi in Germany in the past can tell you how professional, knowledgeable, and safe Taxis were there, and that came through very strong regulations. Getting a taxi concession was no joke. You literally had to study on the layout of the city. And given that those are European cities, there is no grid system. You also had to know about safety and take first aid courses. Additionally, taxis require special inspection on top of the rigid inspections necessary for cars in Germany (you wouldn’t want to endanger people with a rust bucket on the autobahn). So yes, they were exceptionally safe. Taxis are mostly Mercedes in Germany, as traditionally Mercedes had the most experience with taxis, and the proper programs in place for taxi use. When I see a Mercedes E wagon on a freeway, I still think "taxi" (like some think police car when they see a Crown Victoria). Source: There was a time where I took a taxi almost every day in Germany, and a close family member owns a German taxi concession for many decades now. Lyft+Uber are an absolute joke in comparison. (I talk mostly in the past tense, because I haven’t lived in Germany for long now. I don’t know whether the gig economy damaged the enormous quality of taxis over there.)

xrd 3y ago
100% this. I used to love to go to NYC and ride in the taxis. Such interesting people. Now, I get into a car and have to pretend I'm happy there are mints because they don't want to be poorly reviewed. When no one had to care about reviews, people could be real, and occasionally uncomfortable, but always authentic. Those days are long gone and fuck Uber for destroying that.
- bogota 3y ago
  Yeah and outside of NYC and a few other cities you just ended up stranded because one never showed up or more likely people just drove drunk.
- meowtimemania 3y ago
  All my pre-uber memories of taxis in NYC are negative. The drivers drive super crazy, accelerating and breaking a ton because the meter pays them a higher rate if they hit a certain speed. I enjoy uber much more and still meet interesting people.

sgregnt 3y ago

When I was in college and didnt have a car, UBER is one of these things that have improved my quality of live like no other thing. If not for UBER, I would have a miserable existence. Long live UBER.

devjab 3y ago

In Denmark we sort of made it illegal for gig drivers, not for food delivery (unfortunately) but what the “scare” did to taxis was it made them get the same Apps that Uber has. So now taking a taxi comes with most of the benefits of having Uber, while also having all the benefits that come with the rather highly regulated industry of taxi services. I guess it’s more expensive, but then, does Uber make money? Because if they don’t, then when will it disappear?

meowtimemania 3y ago
Uber is making money the last few quarters. I think Uber never made money historically in the same way Amazon never made money.

kelnos 3y ago

It depends on where you live, of course. Pre-Uber, I would use taxis when visiting NYC all the time. It was fine; taxis were all over the place, and hailing one was easy. Hotels and some higher-end restaurants would even help line one up for you. Drivers were all over the map, though: some were quiet, some loud, some annoying, some offensive. Most drivers drove aggressively. Some cars were clean, some dirty. The credit card machine was usually "broken" (wink, wink). No good way to get any of this feedback acted on. In SF (where I've lived since pre-Uber times), taxis were useless. There was pretty much nowhere in the city where you could reliably flag one down. You could call a dispatcher, but the standard answer was "a taxi will pick you up in 20 minutes", and then at least half the time they'd never show up. The rest of the time it'd take at least twice that amount of time. So I walked or took transit when I had the extra time in my schedule, or I drove. Which sucked in many ways, as parking is annoying in SF, and if I'm going out to drink, it means either carefully controlling how much I drink, and leaving some buffer time at the end of the night to sober up, or leaving my car wherever it is, and hoping I don't get a parking ticket in the morning (a hope that failed often enough to get expensive). Nowadays I still walk or take transit as much as possible, but I hardly ever drive in the city. Uber/Lyft have completely filled this void. As much as their business practices have been terrible, there's nothing else that fills their niche. > So I'm all for company like Uber to be able to cut such bad actors very fast to be able to provide good service for customers. The problem with this is that there's no due process. Some disgruntled rider can be an asshole and rate a driver with 1 star, with a comment about feeling unsafe, and that's it, even if the driver didn't do anything wrong. How is that fair?

m463 3y ago

> unpredictable prices I find pricing very variable with uber. Meanwhile, taxis have always had predictable pricing based on tariffs. Honestly, I think the answer usually is in robust competition. thing is, with this brave new world of purchasing services through apps and websites, competition is not assured. You will have a very difficult time fighting through the gauntlet of adtech and dark patterns, you might have a hard time getting a fair deal. Do people really get fair pricing getting a hotel, a plane ticket, a rental car, a tow truck or an emergency plumber anymore?