5 ms·

“She declined to say what was on the ill-fated lunch menu, or whether she had eaten it.” Why would she decline this? Did she just not tell the media, but told

“She declined to say what was on the ill-fated lunch menu, or whether she had eaten it.” Why would she decline this? Did she just not tell the media, but told the police?

pengaru 3y ago
Anyone with half a brain would refrain from potential self-incrimination when suspected of murder. Guilty or not, what you say can be used against you.
lylejantzi3rd 3y ago
I don't know how it is in Australia, but in the US, there's no reason to talk to the police if you're suspected of murder. It can never help you. It can only hurt you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE edit: the video is a talk a criminal lawyer gave explaining why it's a bad idea to talk to the police. If you want a more detailed explanation, watch it.
- lesuorac 3y ago
  I like the UK method [1] more. You can be silent if you like but if you want to claim you were just going on a "jog" and not "running away from somebody you murdered" you better make that claim now. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and_Wales#Adverse_inferences_from_silence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_an...
  - lylejantzi3rd 3y ago
    Do you know if Australia has a similar method?
    - lesuorac 3y ago
      Neither an australian nor a lawyer but it looks like they don't [1] and instead are similar to the US. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_Australia
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    No that's horrible actually. It is almost always worse for the accused, and better for the police. If you talk, they win and if you don't you lose. I'm Canadian so it's not like this (not talking to the cops being the better option) is unique to the US.
    - lesuorac 3y ago
      It's better for getting to the truth in a timely manor. Its basically civil discovery except for a criminal matter. Good luck in a civil case bringing up some evidence at the 11th hour when its obvious to the other side you had that evidence from the start. Also, you don't have to talk in the UK just like the US. You still have the right to be silent.
- kenjackson 3y ago
  I find that absurd. How can giving the police information that can exonerate you always be a bad idea? It seems like people have entered this weird behavior where they follow guidance blindly. EDIT: And after watching some of the video the presenter seems to be making the case that you should never interact with the police. And maybe even moreso -- maybe never communicate at all w/o your lawyer since there are laws you may be breaking at any point in time that you may not realize. If prosecution doesn't care about the truth, and the police happily will comopletely fabricate out of thin air, and you regularly break laws you aren't even aware of -- it seems like talking to police is a relatively small problem.
  - paxys 3y ago
    "I did not commit the crime" is a pointless statement even if you repeat it a hundred times. No one is going to believe you. It can't be brought up in court. It is hearsay. "I committed the crime" on the other hand is an instant confession and conviction. So the best advice is always – keep your mouth shut.
  - brianlweiner 3y ago
    parent comment roughly paraphrased the advice... the core advice is to never speak to police WITHOUT YOUR LAWYER present. Certainly providing the menu that might exonerate you is probably fine -- but that's what a lawyer is for.
  - slimsag 3y ago
    If you’re going to make the claim it was an accident, it’s best you do that through a lawyer negotiating on your behalf, or in court - not in an interrogation room full of people who believe it was malice and will leap on any misspoken words to paint you as a murderer. If you’re being accused of multiple homicide, you better bet you shouldn’t just start volunteering random information that you /think/ will exonerate you.
  - catboybotnet 3y ago
    Just because you're telling the truth doesn't mean that they'll present it to the court in a way that makes it seem like the truth. If they want to convict you, witnesses will show up pinning you to the crime. That, or they'll use "interrogation" tactics to get you to "confess" when you're innocent. It's mindgames to close the case early. The U.S. has a worrying amount of wrongful convictions, for many reasons. To sum it up: never speak to police without a lawyer.
- elil17 3y ago
  I don't quite agree with this, and I don't think it's what the video is saying. There's never, ever, ever a reason to talk to the police without a lawyer. But, under the advice of counsel and as part of a well planned defense, saying certain things may make sense.
voisin 3y ago
If she declined to tell police then presumably they would charge her and let a jury decide if it is beyond a reasonable doubt that these four people ate the poisonous mushroom at her lunch.
a4000 3y ago
Apparently it was beef wellington pie https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/10/victoria-suspected-mushroom-poisonings-lunchtime-dish-was-a-beef-wellington-pie https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/10/victo...

“She declined to say what was on the ill-fated lunch menu, or whether she had eaten it.” Why would she decline this? Did she just not tell the media, but told the police?

pengaru 3y ago

Anyone with half a brain would refrain from potential self-incrimination when suspected of murder. Guilty or not, what you say can be used against you.

lylejantzi3rd 3y ago

I don't know how it is in Australia, but in the US, there's no reason to talk to the police if you're suspected of murder. It can never help you. It can only hurt you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE edit: the video is a talk a criminal lawyer gave explaining why it's a bad idea to talk to the police. If you want a more detailed explanation, watch it.

lesuorac 3y ago
I like the UK method [1] more. You can be silent if you like but if you want to claim you were just going on a "jog" and not "running away from somebody you murdered" you better make that claim now. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and_Wales#Adverse_inferences_from_silence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_an...
- lylejantzi3rd 3y ago
  Do you know if Australia has a similar method?
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    Neither an australian nor a lawyer but it looks like they don't [1] and instead are similar to the US. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_Australia
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  No that's horrible actually. It is almost always worse for the accused, and better for the police. If you talk, they win and if you don't you lose. I'm Canadian so it's not like this (not talking to the cops being the better option) is unique to the US.
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    It's better for getting to the truth in a timely manor. Its basically civil discovery except for a criminal matter. Good luck in a civil case bringing up some evidence at the 11th hour when its obvious to the other side you had that evidence from the start. Also, you don't have to talk in the UK just like the US. You still have the right to be silent.
kenjackson 3y ago
I find that absurd. How can giving the police information that can exonerate you always be a bad idea? It seems like people have entered this weird behavior where they follow guidance blindly. EDIT: And after watching some of the video the presenter seems to be making the case that you should never interact with the police. And maybe even moreso -- maybe never communicate at all w/o your lawyer since there are laws you may be breaking at any point in time that you may not realize. If prosecution doesn't care about the truth, and the police happily will comopletely fabricate out of thin air, and you regularly break laws you aren't even aware of -- it seems like talking to police is a relatively small problem.
- paxys 3y ago
  "I did not commit the crime" is a pointless statement even if you repeat it a hundred times. No one is going to believe you. It can't be brought up in court. It is hearsay. "I committed the crime" on the other hand is an instant confession and conviction. So the best advice is always – keep your mouth shut.
- brianlweiner 3y ago
  parent comment roughly paraphrased the advice... the core advice is to never speak to police WITHOUT YOUR LAWYER present. Certainly providing the menu that might exonerate you is probably fine -- but that's what a lawyer is for.
- slimsag 3y ago
  If you’re going to make the claim it was an accident, it’s best you do that through a lawyer negotiating on your behalf, or in court - not in an interrogation room full of people who believe it was malice and will leap on any misspoken words to paint you as a murderer. If you’re being accused of multiple homicide, you better bet you shouldn’t just start volunteering random information that you /think/ will exonerate you.
- catboybotnet 3y ago
  Just because you're telling the truth doesn't mean that they'll present it to the court in a way that makes it seem like the truth. If they want to convict you, witnesses will show up pinning you to the crime. That, or they'll use "interrogation" tactics to get you to "confess" when you're innocent. It's mindgames to close the case early. The U.S. has a worrying amount of wrongful convictions, for many reasons. To sum it up: never speak to police without a lawyer.
elil17 3y ago
I don't quite agree with this, and I don't think it's what the video is saying. There's never, ever, ever a reason to talk to the police without a lawyer. But, under the advice of counsel and as part of a well planned defense, saying certain things may make sense.

voisin 3y ago

If she declined to tell police then presumably they would charge her and let a jury decide if it is beyond a reasonable doubt that these four people ate the poisonous mushroom at her lunch.

a4000 3y ago

Apparently it was beef wellington pie https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/10/victoria-suspected-mushroom-poisonings-lunchtime-dish-was-a-beef-wellington-pie https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/10/victo...