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The Tetris Effect
- aaroninsf 3y agohttps://archive.org/details/msdos_Blockout_1989 https://archive.org/details/msdos_Blockout_1989
- khamisiyah 3y agoStill very difficult to visualize the Z-layer (how far the blocks are into the screen). Maybe another way to make 3D tetris more viable would be to have a camera that automatically adjusts for the best viewing angle for the player?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jmiskovic 3y agoProbing the conscious and subconscious mind, a novel mind-boggling 3D-to-2D visualization, working interactive demo, nice hand-drawn diagrams - this is my HN nugget of the day. Kudos!
- NonZeroSumJames 3y agoThanks - discovering these comments has been a real treat. It was fun working it all out. Turns out rotating these babies in code is easier than in your head, just swapping out relative x,y,z positions.
- lloeki 3y ago> this time I was fixated on how to create a three-dimensional version of Tetris. I remember playing a 3D Tetris-like game called Blockout back in the day. Some shapes were odd and non-4-block, key mappings for rotations were mind bending. https://www.mobygames.com/game/498/blockout/ https://www.mobygames.com/game/498/blockout/ As for the Tetris effect, at some point I played a lot of Tetris and seeing falling tetrominos when falling asleep was only the beginning of it: my brain built some heavy pattern recognition for pieces, so much so that I was basically daydreaming tetrominos everywhere, as in seeing a tetromino shape first, then realising what the thing actually was (e.g a bunch of buildings, a bunch of cars parked in a certain way, in books where rivers lined up a certain way, or words were even vaguely tetromino-shaped), or seeing stacks ("I could fit a T in there" and stuff).
- efdee 3y agoBlockout was the first game we had on our 286. So many memories. Thanks.
- red_admiral 3y agoYes, the main keys were Q/A, W/S, E/D for rotations around the major axes, arrows for moving in the XY plane (assuming the Z axis is "down") and SPACE was a force drop I think? You can learn a lot of Group Theory trying to make a mental model of how the rotations work, since you get not just equations like QQQ = A but also (from memory so maybe wrong) something like QWQ = D. Shapes with symmetry axes generate subgroups, some (like the I block) even commutative ones. So technically you could live with only three of the rotation keys if you're the kind of person who rotates left three times when you want to rotate right. And of course, the 3D versions of the S/Z pieces can screw up your game even worse than the 2D ones.
- lloeki 3y ago> You can learn a lot of Group Theory trying to make a mental model of how the rotations work I didn't have a clue what group theory was back then (I was 10yo or something), but I clearly remember discovering these. Pretty sure it ended up become formative for my surprisingly quick group theory understanding in later maths class.
- Pinus 3y agoI played that a lot, too! Usually with the simplest block set, which was just 3D versions of the usual Tetris blocks. After that, playing “normal” 2D tetris suddenly became harder, because there are some rotations that cannot be done when you have only one axis! In 3D, you can flip an S into a Z, but in 2D, you can’t!
- lloeki 3y ago> In 3D, you can flip an S into a Z, but in 2D, you can’t! Haha I did that a lot! the sequence became hardwired in muscle memory, like when you learn to solve a Rubik's cube and moving this to that becomes second nature.
- boredhedgehog 3y agoAlexey Pajitnov actually designed his own 3D version called Welltris. It might be even less known than BlockOut, even though it's a more elegant solution. https://www.mobygames.com/game/2121/welltris/ https://www.mobygames.com/game/2121/welltris/
- vikingerik 3y agoWelltris isn't really 3d. The viewport is, but the gameplay is 2d. It's on (five of the six sides of) the interior surface of a cube, but that's the same as if those sides were folded out flat into a 2d plane. Each cell has only four adjacencies, not the six degrees of freedom that would exist in a fully 3d volume.
- antupis 3y agoSomebody should make Tetris game where speed does not increase but dimensions do.
- quickthrower2 3y agoIt exists, it is called deep learning
- monstertank 3y agoPretty sure that LSD is illegal :P
- xnorswap 3y agoI think the rings are a fantastic innovation. It would help me even further if the z-layers were colour coded too. I appreciate the colours currently reflect different blocks like in the original tetris, but I'd find it easier to process the "board state" if each ring size also had a colour associated with it. It would be easier to "scan" the board state for where best to place the piece. That said, this is a fantastic demonstration of innovation. It very neatly demonstrates the pros and cons of this particular 2d visualisation scheme. The game itself is awkward, and requires 3 hands to properly play. Also for anyone else who grew up playing a particular windows port of tetris (from the BOWEP pack?), having space jam down the page instead of the block takes some getting used to.
- NonZeroSumJames 3y agoThanks! I take your point that colours would help distinguish the different z-layers - it's pretty easy to confuse the two larger rings I found. I was also thinking that making it stereoscopic might help. I've done this before where you have two running side by side, responding to the same controls, but you offset the z-axis a little. Then you basically match up the two by going cross-eyed! And voilà, more 3D information in the brain. Concerning the controls I had to factor in simplifying them to create the mobile version - https://nonzerosum.games/tetrings_mobile.html https://nonzerosum.games/tetrings_mobile.html because it was just not possible to distinguish between so many different gesture controls on a touch screen. So, in the mobile version, on a couple of axes you can only rotate in one direction, given this limitation I could definitely limit the keyboard controls for people with only 2 hands. Thanks again, finding comments like these has been really enjoyable.
- highwaylights 3y agoCame to find Tetrisphere and really surprised it’s not come up in the thread already. I thoroughly enjoyed this game back in the day, and it has some really novel ideas about how to approach 3D tetrominoes. https://youtu.be/VLSKnVJMvHg https://youtu.be/VLSKnVJMvHg
- jram930 3y agoHa I came to say the same thing and ctrl-F'd and found you. That was a fun game.
- intrasight 3y agoI was in graduate school when Tetris exploded. One of the PhD students in our lab nearly failed out due to his Tetris addition. For me, that what "The Tetris Effect" refers to.
- b3lvedere 3y ago"If Tetris has taught me anything, it's that errors pile up and accomplishments disappear." https://imgur.com/v1QA0AZ https://imgur.com/v1QA0AZ
- DeathArrow 3y ago>The Tetris Effect can also invade people's waking lives with intrusive thoughts that interpret the real world through the lens of this particular cognitive pattern So Tetris was a plot of USSR govt and KGB to control westerners minds? :D
- gargablegar 3y agoBlockout (1989) was amazing https://youtu.be/ZpeSH6pbio4 https://youtu.be/ZpeSH6pbio4
- wycy 3y agoI really can't even play Tetris anymore because of the Tetris Effect. Picturing falling blocks literally keeps me awake at night after I play.
- anothermoron 3y agoI get this on other genres as well, mainly SHMUPS and Rhythm games!
- badcppdev 3y agoThere is a real study that shows that Tetris can help prevent PTSD: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-03-28-post-traumatic-stress-symptoms-can-be-prevented-using-tetris-emergency-department https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-03-28-post-traumatic-stress-s... I haven't read about this thoroughly but I think the theory is that the Tetris Effect that we all hate literally blocks the formation of traumatic memories.
- NonZeroSumJames 3y agoThat makes total sense, if Tetris is something your brain prioritises when consolidating memory during sleep then it will take up bandwidth from the traumatic event and block it from being consolidated. I wonder if there's something in that, where people try to distract themselves in their every day life with these games, perhaps it's an instinctive way of reducing trauma.
- plank 3y agoStarted reading the article, immediately thought of a relative simple solution: - the most important thing is: is a bottom layer ‘solid’. So looking from above seems the most obvious - you could use e.g. numbers to indicate height, so a 3 is ‘three up’, a ‘1’ is one up, and a ‘0’ is: you are at the bottom. - and use colours to indicate ‘holes below’ (e.g. blue is one hole, green 2, and red 3). The blocks that are falling could be shown in multiple views, e.g. from above, from the front and from the right (with e.g. again numbers saying how ‘high’ it is. You would not see the complete picture, but surely when you play from the start you would get a good mental picture from where the holes are, certainly if you played it for some length? Edit: A separate view of e.g. the bottom layer or perhaps the two lowest layers could make it completely playable?
- NonZeroSumJames 3y agoThat definitely sounds like some approaches that have been taken. Blockout and Welltris are workable. I was just trying to do something that gave access to all information in a consistent way, so that someone might develop an intuition for a space outside of their usual 3D vision. Thanks for your feedback
- jszymborski 3y agoCan't you just have one or two more camera angles on the screen at all times? Maybe even a stationary and a rotating view?
- NonZeroSumJames 3y agoMy intention was to have the simplest implementation with the most information, so having 2 cameras is a solution of sorts but it sort of fails on both my objectives adding the complication of a second camera and then perhaps having to implement controls for that as well as the 3D controls of the pieces... and even so there will still be some aspects obscured. This was also much easier to code, an unspoken 3rd objective :) Thanks for playing - if you'd like to try the mobile version it's at https://nonzerosum.games/tetrings_mobile.html https://nonzerosum.games/tetrings_mobile.html
- feintruled 3y agoHe might be on to something, but I couldn't grok the visualisation at all. I didn't spend long though. I remember a game called Wetrix, that combined Tetris like gameplay with a 3D environment : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetrix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetrix
- NonZeroSumJames 3y agoAs the developer I also haven't even developed the intuition required to grok the visualisation, so - it probably takes a considerable amount of time, but surely after some weeks of play...
- tinytoon 3y agoWould this be a good game for a VR scenario ? A Player could youse hand or finger gestures to move and rotate the individual blocks and surrounding level/area
- sleepybrett 3y agoNot really tetris, but certainly adjacent https://store.steampowered.com/app/554870/SUPERHYPERCUBE/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/554870/SUPERHYPERCUBE/
- m3kw9 3y agoWould it be as addictive, no because the simplicity of Tetris is gone
- whalesalad 3y agoI used to work in the same building/floor as the Tetris company. My girlfriend was on the QA team. She was an absolute menace at this game. I remember back when Facebook games were a thing she would get on my account and play all of my friends and sweep the floor with them. It was so fun to watch. The Tetris effect is absolutely a real thing. Gonna need to dust off the Switch and play a little today!
- GasolinePC 3y agoDirty hack to make it readable: $('script,style,link,img,canvas,#menu').remove();$('body').attr('style',null);
- 11Spades 3y agoI think the addition of new pieces was incredibly clever. When I started playing, I first just tried to play like it was regular Tetris on the furthest side of the board -- a strategy that was quickly foiled. The implementation of an extra dimension is also pretty cool, but as a game design nerd, I think it's more awesome that you managed to force players to engage with the concept.
- NonZeroSumJames 3y agoThanks! I was actually going to make an algorithm to find all the possible variations, but I realised that the additional options were limited and immediately obvious, and hard coding them would give me more control of game balance. The blog is really about sharing ideas, so yes "forcing" the read is part of it XD - hopefully some ventured into the rest of the blog, which is more "saving the world" sort of material. I really appreciate your comments here, I wish I'd found them straight away :)
- luxuryballs 3y agojust have some controls for shifting forward and backward and rotating the camera in 90 degree steps while bringing the piece with you, the falling piece still controls exactly like normal Tetris, but it rotates along with the camera rotating, it slides along the camera axis changes, and the camera plane always aligns with one row of the 3d stack, did I miss something or is this not the obvious approach? the adjacent block rows can become more translucent but maintain wireframe the further away from the focus row, etc
- WorldMaker 3y agoThat's pretty close to what Tetrisphere did.
- sleepybrett 3y agoNot really a 3d tetris but certainly tetris adjacent https://store.steampowered.com/app/554870/SUPERHYPERCUBE/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/554870/SUPERHYPERCUBE/
- WorldMaker 3y agoAnother tangent to the overall topic: There's a game called Tetris Effect that renders the 2D playing field in 3D with subtle 3D effects to have fun with the immersion of it and intentionally trying to build the Tetris effect in the player even while you play. It was originally designed for VR immersion though you can play it on a regular screen. It's from Enhance the studio that inherited the designers from Rez, Lumines, Child of Eden (the weird, under-rated Kinect game), and more where highly immersive (music/rumble/design details focused towards synesthesia) games are their passion. If you've ever played Lumines and wondered what that team would do with Tetris itself, Tetris Effect is a must play.
- phibz 3y agoThe "tetris effect" is why I had to stop playing Lumines on the PSP. My sleep was dominated by dreams of that infernal game. Incidentally though I'm wicked good at it.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dang 3y ago[belated stub for offtopicness] "Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dvh 3y agoIn style.css: p { font-size: 400%; } Please don't!
- beeburrt 3y agoThat font is terrible for reading. Maybe for like headings it’s ok, but long paragraphs, no.
- Waterluvian 3y agoI had a real problem reading this. Luckily reader mode seemed to work fine and stripped all the style from the document.
- noduerme 3y agoThis could for all I know be the most brilliant solution to 3D Tetris ever, but the font is just so terrible that I find it hard to get past the first paragraph, which makes me doubt the validity of any further (possibly quite clever) design solutions that are being presented. Design serves a single purpose, which is to present information in the clearest possible way. Any design choices you make which don't serve that purpose are hubris. (And yes, the conveyance of some information requires invoking emotional triggers via more complicated and hard-to-fathom design; this is not one of those exceptions. Clarity, please!) An article about reducing some immense design complexity to visual simplicity should strive to present itself as clearly as possible, not use a goddamn webfont from the 90s.
- pimlottc 3y agoThe first part of the article, at least, works in reader mode.
- NonZeroSumJames 3y agoHey everyone, I'm James, the writer of the linked blog post with the 3D Tetris experiment and I just today discovered this thread! Which explains the bump in traffic I had for a couple of days back in August. One of the moderators has kindly let me jump back in to say thanks to everyone that read the blog and had a play, it was most exciting to see people talking about it and I was especially amused by everyone bagging on the unreadable font - you'll be relieved that it has been changed, as of a few weeks ago. So, a huge thanks, you've all made my day. And if you were looking for a mobile version, here it is... https://nonzerosum.games/tetrings_mobile.html https://nonzerosum.games/tetrings_mobile.html I'm looking forward to being part of this community too.