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Can anyone explain how wages can possibly be this high? Why doesn't everyone on a low income want to become a UPS driver?

by RobinL 3y ago

barathr 3y ago
The headline is misleading. It's not actually $170k salary. It's a base salary of something like $95k and then various (mostly standard) benefits that they mark up the value of to claim it as being worth the remainder.
- olyjohn 3y ago
  That still seems really high. I don't believe it. https://www.jobs-ups.com/category/delivery-driver-jobs/1187/4674/1 https://www.jobs-ups.com/category/delivery-driver-jobs/1187/... All these delivery driver jobs are $21-28/hr that I could see. I don't know how you can make anywhere near $95,000/yr unless you're getting paid mega overtime. If they are using overtime stats to prop up their average pay, that's horse shit.
  - jfengel 3y ago
    Overtime does seem to be part of it: "drivers earned about $95,000 in pay annually on average or about $42 an hour" That's 2261 hours per year, or 43.5 hours per week. More when you take into account that most people get vacation time and holidays. Still, I don't think that's the issue you're noticing. The average is twice the starting salary. So it sounds as if they ramp up salary fairly quickly, and/or have very long careers.
aphexddb 3y ago
Context: I was a UPS drivers helper during college during the holiday seasons. This job entailed running large amounts of holiday volume packages to houses from the truck. I speculate that this is because the role of driver is a high-trust and critical operations role. This person has to reliably execute package delivery every single day regardless of the highly variable problem spaces that emerge. Without the last X mile capacity that a driver brings, all of the infra at UPS doesn’t provide value. For example a driver wakes up early every day, rain or shine (or sleet), and is accountable for making sure a truck is loaded correctly at the dock, and every package on the route is delivered. This can include packages of diamonds insured for 10’s of thousands, to hundred plus pound boxes. I only rode shotgun for a few weeks a year and it was hard work. From that POV it a seems like a fair wage for the role.
- Noumenon72 3y ago
  How much does this differ from the responsibilities of armored car drivers, who make $17/hour?
  - scaasic 3y ago
    They should make more too.
  - xnyan 3y ago
    Same reason pizza delivery (a fairly dangerous job, more likely to die on the job than a cop) makes less - It’s not as hard to train and retain armored car drivers. Armored cars make routine deliveries of exactly one product to a fixed number of regular commercial clients. General package delivery is pretty much the opposite of all of that.
- justapassenger 3y ago
  It’s a hard work, yes. And people should get paid for hard work. But you’re a delivery man, that’s it. In each job you need to wake up in the morning and have responsibility to do your work well. And very often you’re handling equipment/goods that exceed not only your monthly salary but your lifetime income.
  - peterhhchan 3y ago
    That's exactly why they should be are so highly paid. You don't want your delivery man to be texting their friends that they just dropped off a high value package somewhere.
    - justapassenger 3y ago
      They should be highly paid, or they'll conspire to commit felonies? That's not a reason to be highly paid (and note - nowhere I argue how much they should be paid).
  - gamblor956 3y ago
grouchomarx 3y ago
Brutal and critical job that not everyone is physically capable of doing
tracker1 3y ago
It may not be that high everywhere, not sure if it's normalized nationally. Also, the base pay is probably something around 90-120k, with the rest being medical coverage (possibly including family) as well as 401k matching, etc. Often over-valued and maybe including the employer-side taxes as well. It's also grueling work, you are on pretty tight timing, and relentlessly tracked. You pretty much need to hustle all day, and have really good bladder control. Most people are not willing to actually work that hard, physically. At least they have A/C in the trucks now, here in Phoenix I couldn't imagine working that job through June, July and August (top 3 reasons not to live here).
miguelazo 3y ago
Because it’s actually hard (both physically and mentally) labor. Unlike what most of the keyboard jockeys on this forum (including myself) are doing. Not to mention the misleading headlines as others have alluded to.
mbgerring 3y ago
It’s skilled labor and it likely takes training and years of service to get to this level of pay, which, given that its inclusive of the provided health care benefits, is just enough to provide what used to be considered a normal middle class standard of living. We should aspire for basically every job in America to work like this.
- beepbooptheory 3y ago
  We should aspire, in general, to put away forever the ridiculous term "unskilled labor."
ecshafer 3y ago
It’s usually pretty hard to get an ups driver position. Most people work the warehouse for years before they get a shot, and that is incredibly hard work that doesn’t pay as well.
Spooky23 3y ago
It’s a great path to a middle class existence. Before you get to drive, you toil in a hot warehouse for several years. If you have the work ethic and stick to it, you achieve a good career. How can wages be that high? It’s what good workers demand for good work. Everyone bitches about the problems they have when they get shipments from herky jerky companies like Laser. They pay peanuts and get what they pay for.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  I think people don’t understand that you can’t just apply for this job. It’s always been an in-demand job and you’re right, you have to put many years in doing hard work in the warehouses first. It’s a massive filter function not unlike STEM degrees in terms of many that start don’t make it. Becoming a driver is like joining an elite fraternity.
- __derek__ 3y ago
  Re: path to the middle class and the warehouse-to-driver gauntlet, the New Yorker had a good piece on the looming strike back in January.[1] [1]: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/16/can-ups-still-deliver-a-middle-class-life https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/16/can-ups-still-...
- housemusicfan 3y ago
  > Everyone bitches about the problems they have when they get shipments from herky jerky companies like Laser Let's not forget OnTrac, where I've had them show up at nearly 11 PM and chuck a package out the driver's side window into the bushes. I thought I was about to be the victim of a drive-by. In a way it was.

Can anyone explain how wages can possibly be this high? Why doesn't everyone on a low income want to become a UPS driver?

by RobinL 3y ago

Can anyone explain how wages can possibly be this high? Why doesn't everyone on a low income want to become a UPS driver?

barathr 3y ago

The headline is misleading. It's not actually $170k salary. It's a base salary of something like $95k and then various (mostly standard) benefits that they mark up the value of to claim it as being worth the remainder.

olyjohn 3y ago
That still seems really high. I don't believe it. https://www.jobs-ups.com/category/delivery-driver-jobs/1187/4674/1 https://www.jobs-ups.com/category/delivery-driver-jobs/1187/... All these delivery driver jobs are $21-28/hr that I could see. I don't know how you can make anywhere near $95,000/yr unless you're getting paid mega overtime. If they are using overtime stats to prop up their average pay, that's horse shit.
- jfengel 3y ago
  Overtime does seem to be part of it: "drivers earned about $95,000 in pay annually on average or about $42 an hour" That's 2261 hours per year, or 43.5 hours per week. More when you take into account that most people get vacation time and holidays. Still, I don't think that's the issue you're noticing. The average is twice the starting salary. So it sounds as if they ramp up salary fairly quickly, and/or have very long careers.

aphexddb 3y ago

Context: I was a UPS drivers helper during college during the holiday seasons. This job entailed running large amounts of holiday volume packages to houses from the truck. I speculate that this is because the role of driver is a high-trust and critical operations role. This person has to reliably execute package delivery every single day regardless of the highly variable problem spaces that emerge. Without the last X mile capacity that a driver brings, all of the infra at UPS doesn’t provide value. For example a driver wakes up early every day, rain or shine (or sleet), and is accountable for making sure a truck is loaded correctly at the dock, and every package on the route is delivered. This can include packages of diamonds insured for 10’s of thousands, to hundred plus pound boxes. I only rode shotgun for a few weeks a year and it was hard work. From that POV it a seems like a fair wage for the role.

Noumenon72 3y ago
How much does this differ from the responsibilities of armored car drivers, who make $17/hour?
- scaasic 3y ago
  They should make more too.
- xnyan 3y ago
  Same reason pizza delivery (a fairly dangerous job, more likely to die on the job than a cop) makes less - It’s not as hard to train and retain armored car drivers. Armored cars make routine deliveries of exactly one product to a fixed number of regular commercial clients. General package delivery is pretty much the opposite of all of that.
justapassenger 3y ago
It’s a hard work, yes. And people should get paid for hard work. But you’re a delivery man, that’s it. In each job you need to wake up in the morning and have responsibility to do your work well. And very often you’re handling equipment/goods that exceed not only your monthly salary but your lifetime income.
- peterhhchan 3y ago
  That's exactly why they should be are so highly paid. You don't want your delivery man to be texting their friends that they just dropped off a high value package somewhere.
  - justapassenger 3y ago
    They should be highly paid, or they'll conspire to commit felonies? That's not a reason to be highly paid (and note - nowhere I argue how much they should be paid).
- gamblor956 3y ago

grouchomarx 3y ago

Brutal and critical job that not everyone is physically capable of doing

tracker1 3y ago

It may not be that high everywhere, not sure if it's normalized nationally. Also, the base pay is probably something around 90-120k, with the rest being medical coverage (possibly including family) as well as 401k matching, etc. Often over-valued and maybe including the employer-side taxes as well. It's also grueling work, you are on pretty tight timing, and relentlessly tracked. You pretty much need to hustle all day, and have really good bladder control. Most people are not willing to actually work that hard, physically. At least they have A/C in the trucks now, here in Phoenix I couldn't imagine working that job through June, July and August (top 3 reasons not to live here).

miguelazo 3y ago

Because it’s actually hard (both physically and mentally) labor. Unlike what most of the keyboard jockeys on this forum (including myself) are doing. Not to mention the misleading headlines as others have alluded to.

mbgerring 3y ago

It’s skilled labor and it likely takes training and years of service to get to this level of pay, which, given that its inclusive of the provided health care benefits, is just enough to provide what used to be considered a normal middle class standard of living. We should aspire for basically every job in America to work like this.

beepbooptheory 3y ago
We should aspire, in general, to put away forever the ridiculous term "unskilled labor."

ecshafer 3y ago

It’s usually pretty hard to get an ups driver position. Most people work the warehouse for years before they get a shot, and that is incredibly hard work that doesn’t pay as well.

Spooky23 3y ago

It’s a great path to a middle class existence. Before you get to drive, you toil in a hot warehouse for several years. If you have the work ethic and stick to it, you achieve a good career. How can wages be that high? It’s what good workers demand for good work. Everyone bitches about the problems they have when they get shipments from herky jerky companies like Laser. They pay peanuts and get what they pay for.

nemo44x 3y ago
I think people don’t understand that you can’t just apply for this job. It’s always been an in-demand job and you’re right, you have to put many years in doing hard work in the warehouses first. It’s a massive filter function not unlike STEM degrees in terms of many that start don’t make it. Becoming a driver is like joining an elite fraternity.
__derek__ 3y ago
Re: path to the middle class and the warehouse-to-driver gauntlet, the New Yorker had a good piece on the looming strike back in January.[1] [1]: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/16/can-ups-still-deliver-a-middle-class-life https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/16/can-ups-still-...
housemusicfan 3y ago
> Everyone bitches about the problems they have when they get shipments from herky jerky companies like Laser Let's not forget OnTrac, where I've had them show up at nearly 11 PM and chuck a package out the driver's side window into the bushes. I thought I was about to be the victim of a drive-by. In a way it was.