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> writing Rust is a slog where you have to jump through hoops and spend a lot more time thinking about programming language abstractions than thinking about the

> writing Rust is a slog where you have to jump through hoops and spend a lot more time thinking about programming language abstractions than thinking about the problem you're solving. Have you tried "sticking" with it for a while? Try forcing yoursel to use it[1]. I find that's the best way to learn it (and try reading more code from open source project in Rust you like). I have an opposite experience writing Rust: it allows me to focus on the problem more easily, especially when the problem domain is complex and the codebase grows. [1] a trick often used while learning human languages

devjab 3y ago
Have you written a lot of things in Python? I remember coming "back" to Typescript and C# from Python and how much of a slog it felt. Last year I did quite a lot of work in Rust and I personally found it to be one of the worst languages I've ever worked with in terms of actually writing it. I even like Rust, a lot. I really love things like how you actively need to make things mutable. I wish that was a standard feature in any language I work with. But it's just so verbose.
- brigadier132 3y ago
  > Have you written a lot of things in Python? Not the person you responded to but yes. I have written a lot of production software in Python. I remember developing APIs with Python and the day we switched to using Typescript all these bugs we used to have just disappeared. Going from Typescript to Rust was not as big a change but well designed statically typed languages are a productivity booster not killer. We can agree to disagree but I've personally experienced a large Python codebase at a Unicorn tech startup and I'd like to never experience it again.
  - devjab 3y ago
    I don't think we necessarily disagree. I really enjoy using Typescript these days, but I do remember getting into it and being annoyed I had to write {}'s again. These days I'm annoyed when I can't export functions without putting them into a class though, so maybe people shouldn't listen too much to me.
- spoiler 3y ago
  > Have you written a lot of things in Python? I've been exposed to Python through work, but I was never a fan. Backwhen I was faced with learning Ruby or Python, I picked Ruby; just felt more ergonomic. I even prefer more recent versions of TypeScript to Python too. I never really felt productive in Python, since the language is very finnicky (I would say more so than JS). Rust might be verbose in parts of the language (but I don't find it as verbose as C or C++), but you get a lot of goodies the the price of a bit of verbosity. So, I don't mind it
  - devjab 3y ago
    > Rust might be verbose in parts of the language (but I don't find it as verbose as C or C++), but you get a lot of goodies the the price of a bit of verbosity. So, I don't mind it I think it's worse than C. That being said, I'm probably also biased in a way where I'm more forgiving to C++ than to Rust because C++ is old and Rust is new. What I found when I was working with Rust was that I wished you'd write it like you write Go. As for Go I quite quickly wished it worked like Rust. So I guess you can't win with me? These days we mainly use Typescript because it's useful to mainly use a single language in small teams since it allows the one frontend guy to go on vacations without a laptop. We still do some C#, some C and some Rust + the Python which runs our ML/AI/BI parts since that's what those people work with in my area of the world.
IshKebab 3y ago
I agree that Rust makes it easier to program... But I'm not sure "you just have to force yourself to use it" is the best advert for Rust! It's likely that they just haven't got to the point in their programming where they understand the need for the things Rust solves. Like if you only ever write 100 line Python scripts you probably haven't run into the performance issues or difficulties that come with working on large dynamically typed codebases.

devjab 3y ago

Have you written a lot of things in Python? I remember coming "back" to Typescript and C# from Python and how much of a slog it felt. Last year I did quite a lot of work in Rust and I personally found it to be one of the worst languages I've ever worked with in terms of actually writing it. I even like Rust, a lot. I really love things like how you actively need to make things mutable. I wish that was a standard feature in any language I work with. But it's just so verbose.

brigadier132 3y ago
> Have you written a lot of things in Python? Not the person you responded to but yes. I have written a lot of production software in Python. I remember developing APIs with Python and the day we switched to using Typescript all these bugs we used to have just disappeared. Going from Typescript to Rust was not as big a change but well designed statically typed languages are a productivity booster not killer. We can agree to disagree but I've personally experienced a large Python codebase at a Unicorn tech startup and I'd like to never experience it again.
- devjab 3y ago
  I don't think we necessarily disagree. I really enjoy using Typescript these days, but I do remember getting into it and being annoyed I had to write {}'s again. These days I'm annoyed when I can't export functions without putting them into a class though, so maybe people shouldn't listen too much to me.
spoiler 3y ago
> Have you written a lot of things in Python? I've been exposed to Python through work, but I was never a fan. Backwhen I was faced with learning Ruby or Python, I picked Ruby; just felt more ergonomic. I even prefer more recent versions of TypeScript to Python too. I never really felt productive in Python, since the language is very finnicky (I would say more so than JS). Rust might be verbose in parts of the language (but I don't find it as verbose as C or C++), but you get a lot of goodies the the price of a bit of verbosity. So, I don't mind it
- devjab 3y ago
  > Rust might be verbose in parts of the language (but I don't find it as verbose as C or C++), but you get a lot of goodies the the price of a bit of verbosity. So, I don't mind it I think it's worse than C. That being said, I'm probably also biased in a way where I'm more forgiving to C++ than to Rust because C++ is old and Rust is new. What I found when I was working with Rust was that I wished you'd write it like you write Go. As for Go I quite quickly wished it worked like Rust. So I guess you can't win with me? These days we mainly use Typescript because it's useful to mainly use a single language in small teams since it allows the one frontend guy to go on vacations without a laptop. We still do some C#, some C and some Rust + the Python which runs our ML/AI/BI parts since that's what those people work with in my area of the world.

IshKebab 3y ago

I agree that Rust makes it easier to program... But I'm not sure "you just have to force yourself to use it" is the best advert for Rust! It's likely that they just haven't got to the point in their programming where they understand the need for the things Rust solves. Like if you only ever write 100 line Python scripts you probably haven't run into the performance issues or difficulties that come with working on large dynamically typed codebases.